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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 04-21-2008, 11:01 AM
Reeve
 
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this may be useful for understanding the current trouble with the torch

http://www.german-foreign-policy.com/en/fulltext/56145
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  #2 (permalink)  
Old 04-21-2008, 12:35 PM
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Many of the sources of the 'unconfirmed reports' within Tibet comes from Radio Free Asia, which is funded by the US congress. US propaganda at work.

Daily Kos: State of the Nation
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  #3 (permalink)  
Old 04-23-2008, 01:07 AM
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Well, it is almost a public secret that the whole Tibetan campaign is merely a pseudo-problem fabricated by certain western governments out of blue to bug China. They have been doing the same things for 60 years. Have their political manipulations had any influence on Chinese political policies ever?? That is like a few crickets trying to shake a car.
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Old 04-24-2008, 04:02 AM
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If you're not going to provide any sort of evidence that the whole Tibet issue is fabricated by evil, mustach twisting, brandy drinking, baby hunting westerners, you could at least provide a valid intent.
If anything, most western states want China to past for a stable state that investors should go to.
It's indepandent groups that have their free say in it and they have their say in the government too. Oh that's right, I forgot, the state is a single biological unit that acts unilaterally on everything. When some people dislike what's going one in Tibet, it's not only the entire state government that's behind it, but the whole of "western governments"
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Old 04-30-2008, 07:12 PM
Reeve
 
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First off, do you still think what the Dalai Lama says is reliable after he pointed a pic taken yrs ago, saying those monks who were looting and setting fire in Lhasa were just Chinese police dressed like monks?

Second, here is a presumption, what if Canadian population becomes 1 billion overnight? I guess the US would definitely say, yes Quebec situation a challenge to world conscience.. hey as far as i know, almost half of the people there are for the independence, way higher than the rate of Tibetans who are for Tibetan independence.

Third, you seem to dislike Chinese government system. yes it needs alot of improvement. I am not justifying its defects, but I have a few facts which can help you think of it another way:
(1) 1950s-1990s, when was ruled by ONE party, ie the Liberal Democratic Party, Japan achieved one of the worlds most incredible economic boom.
(2) Singapore is still an authoritarian government system today.
(3) Not to mention Korea and Taiwan were ruled by military totalitarian governments too before 1980s, when both of them developed notably fast.
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Old 04-30-2008, 07:41 PM
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First off, do you still think what the Dalai Lama says is reliable after he pointed a pic taken yrs ago, saying those monks who were looting and setting fire in Lhasa were just Chinese police dressed like monks?
This is relevant how?

Quote:
Second, here is a presumption, what if Canadian population becomes 1 billion overnight? I guess the US would definitely say, yes Quebec situation a challenge to world conscience.. hey as far as i know, almost half of the people there are for the independence, way higher than the rate of Tibetans who are for Tibetan independence.
It's not like I was even support or talking about what the US government said.
Plus Quebec got almost half of the votes in 1995. Not only was it over 10 years ago (considering that the ratio of French Canadians in Quebec to other minorities (who would usually vote against separation) has decreased a great deal), but also the reason separation go so much support was because of bad campaigning by those against it (they were over confident that they would win and put little in the ways of incentives to get supporters to vote). Furthermore, the whole reason the referendum started was because the Federal government could not recognize French Canadians as a visible nationality (nationality in terms of culture, not in terms of state). Back in 2006, the Harper federal government passed legislature and French Canadians are now considered a visible nationality. So the whole cause behind the separation movement in Quebec has died -- except for a few, young extremists present virtually everywhere for any cause.
How do you know more than half of Tibetans don't want to separate? It's not like there were any general votes to determine that.
Again, I said this many times, but this further proves that I'm right: Chinese nationalists rely on the example of other countries to compare and justify the CCP's action, or be an apologist (which is a fallacy; if John steals a car, is it ok for me to steal a bike?).

Quote:
Third, you seem to dislike Chinese government system. yes it needs alot of improvement. I am not justifying its defects, but I have a few facts which can help you think of it another way:
(1) 1950s-1990s, when was ruled by ONE party, ie the Liberal Democratic Party, Japan achieved one of the worlds most incredible economic boom.
(2) Singapore is still an authoritarian government system today.
(3) Not to mention Korea and Taiwan were ruled by military totalitarian governments too before 1980s, when both of them developed notably fast.
Japan and South Korea were aided enormously by the US; China is not. Further both came to their senses and realized that to have sustained, stable growth, you need an elected legislative assembly. Plus to my knowledge, Japan has had several parties in its Diet since the San Francisco Treaty.
Taiwan had a government the size for Mainland China concentrating on that small island -- decentralization anyone?
Singapore is a city who's majority are rich entrepreneurs or the least, middle urban class from the start. It did not need to industrialize like China is doing.
So these examples relate little to the Chinese example and is further promoting the fallacious idea that nationalists hold as I mentioned previously.
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  #7 (permalink)  
Old 04-30-2008, 07:42 PM
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It's not like I was even support or talking about what the US government said.
Further what is the American entity that supports Tibetan separation? Has the state issued any documents that it wants an completely independent Tibet?
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Old 04-30-2008, 07:43 PM
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Japan has had several parties in its Diet since the San Francisco Treaty.
And since the Meiji Restoration in 1868 with a gap between the Great Depression and the San Francisco Treaty.
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  #9 (permalink)  
Old 04-30-2008, 08:06 PM
Reeve
 
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First, did you really read my post? my point was NOT Quebec, but my presumption of Canadian population becaming 1 billion overnight. I said if this is true, the biggest threat to the US would be YOU. do you really think the US and other self righteous GOVERNMENTS care about the human rights in Tibet? NO. proof is: none of them doubted Tibet is a part of China and accused China of the so called invade before the CCP took office.

Second, "How do you know more than half of Tibetans don't want to separate?" --- my Tibetan friend told me.

Third, a book called CIAs Secret War in Tibet is very famous.
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  #10 (permalink)  
Old 04-30-2008, 08:16 PM
Reeve
 
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plus whats wrong with nationalism? China is a country founded 50 yrs ago.

and also, what do you think the meaning of independence is for Tibet?
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