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02-07-2007, 04:29 AM
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Knight
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Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 495
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Han Hong's "sky road天路http://www.ta12.net/music7/dalu/tianlu.wma" is very good.and that Mongolia-Chinese singer Teng geer（腾格尔) is a very good singer,I like his song,and like his music MV,because in his MV,QingHai-Tibet Highland and Mongolia grassland and Si Chuan mountain are very very beautiful.I remember in 1997,there was a famous song"QingHai-Tibet Highland",a Tibetan singer sang that song,it's a very special song.
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03-02-2007, 01:34 AM
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Conscript
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Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 13
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03-02-2007, 01:51 AM
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Join Date: Nov 2006
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Last edited by nickel1106 : 03-02-2007 at 02:08 AM.
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03-02-2007, 02:00 AM
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Join Date: Nov 2006
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03-02-2007, 02:26 AM
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McCain lied about Clark, don't run from lies
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Nice book list, nickel. I'd love to hear your opinion on the subject.
Luke is saying the Tibetans lamas were greedy and oppressive feudal lords over the Tibetan people. He says that Tibet deserves no independence from China.
What do you think?
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03-03-2007, 03:49 AM
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Join Date: Nov 2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by W.E.B. Du Bois
Nice book list, nickel. I'd love to hear your opinion on the subject.
Luke is saying the Tibetans lamas were greedy and oppressive feudal lords over the Tibetan people. He says that Tibet deserves no independence from China.
What do you think?
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first of all, i confess i am a Chinese.and i'm not plead innocence for commie but i'm just telling what i know.
secondly, the books and articles i've posted before were all written by western specialist who lived in tibit for decade or more, and i consider them as impartial sources.
thirdly, ya know this is internet, there are always frauds and misleading there, so IMHO the best way to learn tibet is to visit there in the real world.
ok
here we go...
before the PLA entered there, tibet is running by a theocracy regime, and the lamas were the main part of the master group. and think about how did the slaves been treated in a slavey sociaty, they didn't even to be considered as human race but working animals. plus, of course the population of slaves was far more than those who ruled the regime. so do you think it was wrong to kick slave masters' arse than "show great respect to the religion leader and let them do what they want"?
set aside the books, i recommend you this web site:
The Shadow of the Dalai Lama – Contents
you can see the differents between various type of buddhism, it is always make me giggle while i see people post "buddhism is such a peaceful religion", it is tell nothing but people's ignorance about buddish, i.e in middle age of japan history, monks are one group of individual separatist regimes who were armed and brutel (sometimes), they could also go masscare and plunder as any warlord's troops did.
and talking about image about the western image of tibet, check this episode in the link i posted above
The Shadow of the Dalai Lama – Part II – 4
Quote:
The western image of Tibet
Western observers have in the meantime become more and more blind to the shadowy sides of the Tibetan monastic state. In countless recent books and publications the Tibet of old is depicted as a peaceful state, a sanctuary of calm, the heart of compassion, an ecological oasis, an island of wisdom, a refuge of knowledge, a home of the blissful — in short as a lost earthly paradise, inhabited by enlightened, peace-loving people and mysterious, shining gods. As early as the 1940s, Marco Pallis praised the Tibetans as “one of the earth's most civilized peoples” (quoted by Bishop, 1989, p. 231). “All the residents of Lhasa, rich and poor, high and low, are peaceful”, we can read in a contemporary report. “Even the beggars of Lhasa have only to ply their trade for some time in the morning to get enough food for the day. In the evening they are all nicely drunk. The people of Lhasa were physically relaxed, mentally contended and happy. The food of the city is also nutritious. No one has to strive to make a living. Life takes care of itself, as a matter of course. Everything is splendid” (quoted by Craig, 1997, pp.86-87).
The Kundun also knows to only report only the most positive aspects of the past of the Land of Snows: “The continuing influence of Buddhism produced a society of peace and harmony. We enjoyed freedom and contentment” (Panorama no. 553, November 20, 1997, p. 2). Or at another point: “A poor Tibetan had little cause to envy or be hostile towards the rich lord of his estate, then he knew that everybody harvested what he had sown in his earlier lives. We were quite simply happy” (Panorama no. 553, November 20, 1997, p. 2). This image of a poor, deeply religious, pure, and blissfully happy Tibet has meanwhile become fixed in the consciousness of millions.
It has become a favored topic in, amongst other things, the esoteric literature, but above all in the American film industry. The actor Brad Pitt, who played the role of the German teacher of the Dalai Lama, Heinrich Harrer, in a melodramatic story (Seven years in Tibet), came to the following conclusion once the film had been shot: “Look at the Tibetans, how poor they are in material terms. And then look at them, how happy and peaceful they are, and their attitude to life with which they go their way. This is simply fantastic. It gets under your skin. It is the hearts of the people which make Tibet into Shangri-La, into paradise. In America this has become a real movement” (Panorama no. 553, November 20, 1997, p. 1).
Such glorifications have spread like wildfire in recent years. “The result is a one-sidedly bright image of spiritual purity”, writes Tibet researcher Peter Bishop. “Many contemporary western studies go to the great length to avoid confronting the shadow side of Tibetan spirituality. One can often encounter a sociological naiveté that stands in stark contrast to claims of scientific scrutiny” (Bishop, 1993, p. 73).
In contrast, among the majority of the earlier travelers, the Tibet of old made a deeply negative impression, at least with respect to its social situation, which are these days all too readily dismissed as imperialist arrogance and European racism, although identical criticisms of social conditions were also articulated by admirers of Tibetan culture. Alexandra David-Neel, for example, was just as repelled by the general misery of the country as by the corruption of the priestly caste. Even such a fanatic devotee of the Kalachakra Tantra as Nicholas Roerich complained about the general decadence in the Tibet of the time.
Likewise, Heinrich Harrer does not paint a rosy picture of Lhasa in the forties, but rather depicts the land as an unjust albeit fascinating anachronism. In his world famous travelogue, Seven Years in Tibet, the German mentor of the young Dalai Lama writes: “The power of the monks in Tibet is unique and can only be compared to a strict dictatorship. They keep a mistrustful eye on every influence from outside which could threaten their power. They themselves are clever enough to not believe in the limitlessness of their strength, but would punish anyone who expressed doubts about this” (Harrer, 1984, p. 71).
Dozens of such assessments like that of the “Dalai Lama’s best friend” can be found in the early literature on Tibet. Many visitors prior to the year 1959 report that dictatorial decisions, the arbitrary use of power, brainwashing and paranoid belief in demons, spiritual control and crawling servility, bitterest poverty and oriental wealth, slavery, serfdom, hunger, diseases, a lack of any hygiene, alcoholism, cruel punishments, torture, political and private murder, fear and violence, theft, robbery, and mutual mistrust were everyday features of the kingdom of the Dalai Lamas. The Chakravartin from Lhasa ruled over a vale of tears.
Of course, these negative conditions in no way exclude the possibility that the Land of Snows also had oases of peace, equanimity, erudition, joy, helpfulness, noble-mindedness, or whatever all the Buddhist virtues may be. But what is peculiar about the current image of Tibet is that it only stresses its bright sides and simply denies and represses its shady side.
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hmm...i haven't finished reading the whole article as well,however i'd like to discuss the opinion about former tibet regime with you.
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03-04-2007, 05:34 PM
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Conscript
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Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 2
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Since 2000 years ago, Xin jiang District already belongs to China. Understand?
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03-04-2007, 08:36 PM
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Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by En_Yu
Since 2000 years ago, Xin jiang District already belongs to China. Understand?
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oh come on bro,
plz show your evidence about your comment next time.
A statements speaks nothing. |
03-04-2007, 09:24 PM
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Moderator
McCain lied about Clark, don't run from lies
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Join Date: Oct 2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by En_Yu
Since 2000 years ago, Xin jiang District already belongs to China. Understand?
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China did not get control of Xinjiang until the Qing Dynasty. You do understand the difference between Qing and Qin, don't you?  |
03-04-2007, 09:47 PM
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Moderator
McCain lied about Clark, don't run from lies
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Join Date: Oct 2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nickel1106
hmm...i haven't finished reading the whole article as well,however i'd like to discuss the opinion about former tibet regime with you.
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That's cool, because I love informed debate. I just haven't had the time to do the research. 
In any case, if you look beneath the section you cited (the Western Image of Tibet) look at the Social Structure of Tibet section:
Quote:
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The absolute majority of the sedentary population were the “serfs” of a wealthy ruling elite, and saddled with high taxes. The lives of these Tibetans was hard and frugal, they were badly nourished and the medical services now praised in the West were largely unsuccessful.
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So, according to the author, the majority of Tibetans were serfs and the rulers were a class of aristocrats (who sound like they are not the monks or the attendants to the Dalai Lama).
In any case, this is no different than China today or China 50 years ago. In China, most people are serfs and they are ruled over by a small clique (the upper echelons of the CCP). So China really cannot say they liberated Tibet, since China is every bit as oppressive as old Tibet. |
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