What a load of nonsense, Give me one example of this happening in the UK.

very good post. You put so well what I would like to say

It is everyone’s right to choose whether or not to read an article. But if he decides to comment on an article, particularly if he wants to jump into the conclusion that something was missing altogether, perhaps it would be better to read the whole article first.

First of all, Google auto-translation does a reasonable job in the Italian to English mode, and you could have had some idea if China Daily distorted it badly. The point is, maybe you can’t judge on the credibility of these Italian journalists, but you can at least verify the veracity of Chinadaily’s translation fairly easily.

Secondly, not all things were reported in English or French, but they could still be happening.

Anything relating to China is controversial? Didn’t you find that statement a little bit, eh, over-generalizing?

Also, I think the best way to learn something is to view it from different angles. Not understanding one’s opponent’s stance puts him at disadvantage most of the time.

Tell that to Washington Post, the Guardian and Die Zeit (it’s called Westliche Medien in German). I didn’t invent the word. It existed long before the current standoff between Chinese netizens and some western media.

You are certainly good at twisting words. Do you remember why I cited CNN? I quoted an article by an Italian journalist, and you responded that “Wow… if it is in Italian, it must be valid.” implying that I put blind faith into foreign media, right? As far as I am concerned, Italian media is part of the “western media”. I quoted CNN to show you that I am aware of the media distortion in the west, hence I know that the Italian quote could also be distorted representation of the interview. Furthermore, I said some western media have a history of biased reporting. Does this sound like a gross over-generalization? I didn’t say ALL, I said SOME. Are you going to argue against that statement?

Define Chinese media. Does it include those written/spoken in Chinese, or by Chinese? Or does it only include those state-run newspapers and TV stations? If it’s the latter, of course there’s only one source, by definition (state-run). Have I ever questioned this? There is no need for you to set this up as a straw man to beat up in our debate here. If it’s the former, your statement is way off the mark. Since you have shown your (rudimentary, maybe?) understanding of Chinese in a few occasions, you may try the following internet nexus (add http://www. to the front), particularly the blogs and political forums within:
MITBBS.com (未名空间)
CREADERS.com （万维）
HUAREN.us（华人）
WENXUECITY.com（文学城）
TIANYA.com.cn（天涯）

These are all maintained by Chinese, most of which are pro-China. Several are accessible from within China; some are even based in the mainland. Yet, one will have no problem finding all sorts of information there, including sharp criticism of the government, even those advocating Tibetan Independence.

Now if you don't understand Chinese enough to access those popular Chinese news sites, then your conclusion of Chinese media having one source is a severely underinformed one.

You can criticize CCTV-x all you want, but it doesn’t mean that Chinese posters here necessarily know less about China than your average Joes. Many young Chinese people nowadays, both inside and outside of China, get their information from sources other than the official mouthpieces. If you include the foreign language media, they can certainly obtain a lot more information than what you thought (they could).

So, is there such thing as “western media”? It seems to me that you just defined “western media” here. A little bit self-inconsistent, wasn’t it?

You are right. Let’s all float to the level of not citing anything at all, as you seemed to prefer. Hey, you don’t have to believe in youtube videos, but you could at least still find useful information that you can verify if you so desired.

I can only provide the facts. How people view these facts is their own problem. CIA was involved in a lot of other subversive acts, such as the infamous Pinochet’s coup and repression in Chile. I am sure some people also love these.

Glad that you finally acknowledged this.

It refers to the Cole quote (“Dalai worked with Beijing for 10 years without any drama till he was led astray by CIA and deviant lamas.”) you provided in response to my statement quoted above that ”I still couldn't find any post by Cole stating that CIA was behind the current event, other than that CIA has a not-so-graceful role in the early years.”

Clear?

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What we've got here is... failure to communicate. Some men you just can't reach. --CHL

Since 500 years ago, the west started setting fire everywhere in the world, after 500 years, the west cannot even bear a torch. --Annonymous

Thank you


I would like to add one more thing. FOR ALL OF YOU THAT LIVE IN CHINA, I IMPLORE YOU START ACTIONS AGAINST THE USE OF ONE TIME USE WOODEN CHOPSTICKS.

They're everywhere it's unbelievable -- especially when you have the Gobi desert growing everyday due to deforestation. Do you want more villages engulfed in the Gobi desert?
Do you want this to be the face of the new China?






Speak up! Talk to your local restaurants and tell them to switch to re-usable chopsticks. Oh course, those affected COULD voice they opinions against deforestation, but thanks to your God forsaken authoritarianism, there can't be much campaign against deforestation, only for reforestation. STOP THE MADNESS AT ITS ROOTS. I for one will talk to all the restaurants I frequent when I go back to China.

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What's difficult to understand is why you constantly, over and over again, create an equivalence between western and chinese media.

Being yet another case in point.

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No Fear No Hate No Pain No Broken Hearts

Hi LIT

Is there a China based media source where I can read editorials in favour of Taiwanese independence?

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No Fear No Hate No Pain No Broken Hearts

Why limit it to those living in China? Many restaurants here used one-time use wooden chopsticks as well. Japan is one of largest importers for these chopsticks.

Here is an article I found online showing you efforts of Chinese to go green. It was originally published on Washington Post:

China's Chopsticks Crusade Feeds Environmental Movement

I don't think deforestation is something that the Chinese government advocate. Reforestation is something Chinese government and Chinese people work hard to achieve. There is even a "Plant-a-tree" Day in China.

Personally, I am glad you brought this issue up. I support your action of convincing those restaurant owners to switch to reusable ones. This is much more productive in helping China to solve its problems than standing on the high moral ground criticizing China.

For that matter, why don't we discourage the use of disposable plastic cups, utensils and lunch boxes? They are made out of petroleums. Honestly, let's save the planet, by doing little things that we can. Bring our own dinning wares, eh?

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What we've got here is... failure to communicate. Some men you just can't reach. --CHL

Since 500 years ago, the west started setting fire everywhere in the world, after 500 years, the west cannot even bear a torch. --Annonymous

Innovation and pollution. I'm sure alot of industralized countries have these issues, including countries like the US (I don't know much about canada though) It happens in democratic or authoritian countries. China does address those 2 issues though, though not as much as you expect.

Most of the authoritian decisions made by China is building the basic infrastructure, railroad lines, water lines, dams, roads, schools, hospitals... etc...

Hi Mik,

Probably not the editorials, but plenty of blogs and forum posts in China based media source, some of which I already cited. You get the same information and reasons, nonetheless.

I understand your feeling though, that these voices are not the majority. I had similar feeling in the first few weeks after the 3-14 riots. True, you may find some media publishing things in China's favor, but the overwhelming majority of them were focusing on the negative aspects. How's an article published on Fargo Herald (fictional) going to change the overall impression Americans get?

Things turned around a bit lately. I think collectively, oversea Chinese did a decent job of communicating with foreigners. I'd like to think I did a small part myself. I also regret that some Chinese students did terrible things as well.

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What we've got here is... failure to communicate. Some men you just can't reach. --CHL

Since 500 years ago, the west started setting fire everywhere in the world, after 500 years, the west cannot even bear a torch. --Annonymous

The reason why I ask is that I feel that a China based media outlet that expressed a pro-Taiwan-independence view would get in a lot of trouble. Do correct me if I'm wrong. Blogs and forum posts are a different matter, as they're more anonymous and harder to control (although search engines can be set to limit accessibility, no?)

There's a big difference in effect between what appears in national media and what appears on a given blog. The blog may have a few thousand readers, the national tv hundreds of millions of views. (And your Fargo Herald in between.)

I'd say that when the riots first started there was a strong presumption in the West that the Chinese authorities would crack down forcefully, and also a presumption that the rioters represented genuine grieveance amongst ordinary Tibetans. That presumption was based in part on knowledge of previous government crackdowns on public protest, and to some extent encouraged by the lack of independent media reporting from Tibet and the surrounding provinces. I think you could justifiably call that a Western bias, although the CCP has not done its appearance any favours in the past with the way it has acted towards dissidents.

That initial presumption in the western media has since been counteracted to some extent by better information from Tibet and negative stories about the Tibetans. It has been counteracted to some extent by Chinese people explaining errors and providing information. And to some extent, western prejudices have been reinforced by some of the shriller reaction from Chinese nationalists, that reinforces the supposition that dissent will not be tolerated in China. C'est la vie - we all have our embarassing compatriots.

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No Fear No Hate No Pain No Broken Hearts