Chinese protests, whoa! - Page 18 - Political Forum

gaile · 05-01-2008, 12:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chaochao

I admit those problems you said exist now, sometimes those problems are even worse, but the same problems exist almost in every country, on some aspects western countries don't do better than us. A young and unprecedent constitution is unavoidable to make mistakes when he manages such a large country with so many people, however, people and gov are always making efforts to overcome problems, that make us see the better future.

Your comments precisely revealed where your problem is: you know little about China and western countries. The problems in China are not all the same kind as in western Europe and America. In western countries, the unsatisfactory people can speak up and their voices will be heard. They can veto the government they don't like. This is the important for a country to be healthy and stable.

In China, there is only one voice, the voice of the leaders broadcasted by government-controlled media. Angry people have no way to express themselves, and outsiders know little about how suffering they are. This is dangerous, and especially when angers are suppressed by armed force. Be careful to put CCP and people together, the truth, whatever they(CCP) do, they don't talk to people, and they don't ask for the consent from people .The problems in China are determined by the political mechanism--no free speech and democracy. This has to be changed before China can make significant progress. If you love China, you should put pressure on CCP to reform, not blinding supporting CCP-- this is not the right way to go.

gaile · 05-01-2008, 12:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chaochao

thank you! 谢谢！I sympathize you too. Since your birth you has been brainwashed by lying CNN or BBC and W.Bush, I know it is not your fault. I think one day you will realize how naive and stupid and arrogant you are, you will recognize the evil of western constitution. Read more historical books about China and the world, and think over about it; Read books by Karl Marx and Chairman Mao and Edgar Snow either from China or western countries, and you may enventually think. Karl Marx bless you!

Do you realize what CCP is doing has nothing to do with Karl Marx. According to Carl, freedom and democracy is the building stone of socialism, but what CCP did to Chinese people? China was a great country, and it had a bright future before CCP kinked in under the support of Russia. What CCP and Mao did was to pull back China into a dark age. You must learn this period of history well before you can give any sensible comments.Wake up, poor guy!

pug_ster · 05-01-2008, 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gaile

Your comments precisely revealed where your problem is: you know little about China and western countries. The problems in China are not all the same kind as in western Europe and America. In western countries, the unsatisfactory people can speak up and their voices will be heard. They can veto the government they don't like. This is the important for a country to be healthy and stable.

In China, there is only one voice, the voice of the leaders broadcasted by government-controlled media. Angry people have no way to express themselves, and outsiders know little about how suffering they are. This is dangerous, and especially when angers are suppressed by armed force. Be careful to put CCP and people together, the truth, whatever they(CCP) do, they don't talk to people, and they don't ask for the consent from people .The problems in China are determined by the political mechanism--no free speech and democracy. This has to be changed before China can make significant progress. If you love China, you should put pressure on CCP to reform, not blinding supporting CCP-- this is not the right way to go.

It is interesting that you point out this argument. In an ideal democratic society, the voices of the dissent will be heard. But in the western nations, it is less than ideal.

Jeff Cohen: Military Propaganda Pushed Me Off TV - Media on The Huffington Post

After 9/11, Bush went full force on getting the country rallying on getting rid of Saddam on Wmd's. There were some dissenting voices and guess when happen when they want to be heard.

smallpox · 05-01-2008, 02:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chaochao

I didn't mean the murder of this officer was orginized, I meant the riots were masterminded organizedly.

smallpox · 05-01-2008, 02:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pug_ster

It is interesting that you point out this argument. In an ideal democratic society, the voices of the dissent will be heard. But in the western nations, it is less than ideal.

Jeff Cohen: Military Propaganda Pushed Me Off TV - Media on The Huffington Post

After 9/11, Bush went full force on getting the country rallying on getting rid of Saddam on Wmd's. There were some dissenting voices and guess when happen when they want to be heard.

IF ROB STEALS A CAR, IS IT OK FOR ME TO STEAL A BIKE?
If I'm ever on trial for a crime, I'll use that as my defend.

pug_ster · 05-01-2008, 03:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by smallpox

IF ROB STEALS A CAR, IS IT OK FOR ME TO STEAL A BIKE?
If I'm ever on trial for a crime, I'll use that as my defend.

What are you talking about? I'm talking about Western State's version of 'Free Speech' and you are talking about stolen cars and stolen bikes.

Before the war with Iraq, there are dissenters like Jeff Cohen who want their voices heard about why we should not go to war with Iraq. They went to CNN, FOX, NBC, ABC, and CBS and ask for their voices to be heard. People like him got heckled and dismissed as 'unpatriotic' and 'helping the terrorists.' 4 years afterwards, the American Public believed that people like Jeff Cohen was right. This is what Jeff Cohen calls 'Information dominance' where voices of dissent was virtually outnumbered by the voices of the Western Media.

Fast track today, the same thing is going on. We see the same thing going on with the China situation. Did you see any dissenting voices on the China thing on Western Media? So the only way to get their voices heard is thru protests and here in the net. Yet the voices of the dissent are dismissed as 'communists' and 'why don't you go back to your own country.'

Both Western Media and Chinese Media are biased. To give you an example, I don't see much on the news in China about the Torch Relay in South Korea, which got real ugly. The westen Media have headlines like "Send in the Clowns", the clowns as the Chinese protestors.

FT.com - Olympics chief tells west not to hector China

Here in the Western Media, this headline from the Financial Times was either not mentioned or watered down. This is the Western Propaganda at work. I am not defending CCP propaganda either but I want to mention that the Western Media is not 'Free' because dissenters are heckled out, just like an simpleton's response from smallpox.

smallpox · 05-01-2008, 05:20 PM

Quote:

What are you talking about? I'm talking about Western State's version of 'Free Speech' and you are talking about stolen cars and stolen bikes.

No, like every other apologist of the CCP, you try to bring up wrongs of other states to say "hey, China isn't so bad..."
This metaphor exemplifies this very fallacious arguments always brought forward by the likes of you.

Quote:

Before the war with Iraq, there are dissenters like Jeff Cohen who want their voices heard about why we should not go to war with Iraq. They went to CNN, FOX, NBC, ABC, and CBS and ask for their voices to be heard. People like him got heckled and dismissed as 'unpatriotic' and 'helping the terrorists.' 4 years afterwards, the American Public believed that people like Jeff Cohen was right. This is what Jeff Cohen calls 'Information dominance' where voices of dissent was virtually outnumbered by the voices of the Western Media.

See what I meant? When I call for democracy I do not call for an American-like system. I advocate a British style parliamentary system.

Quote:

Fast track today, the same thing is going on. We see the same thing going on with the China situation. Did you see any dissenting voices on the China thing on Western Media? So the only way to get their voices heard is thru protests and here in the net. Yet the voices of the dissent are dismissed as 'communists' and 'why don't you go back to your own country.'

I don't know what the "thing" is, but yes, I have heard many dissidents in China speaking to foreign media because they are censored by CCTV.
And these quotes do no at all represent anything I said or I have heard thus far in these forums.

Quote:

Here in the Western Media, this headline from the Financial Times was either not mentioned or watered down. This is the Western Propaganda at work. I am not defending CCP propaganda either but I want to mention that the Western Media is not 'Free' because dissenters are heckled out, just like an simpleton's response from smallpox.

I don't know how many times I've said this so far but:
THERE"S NO SUCH THING AS WESTERN MEDIA.
You have so many different media included in it, each with its owner, its own bias and its interest. For Chinese people, and apologists, it's hard to understand because you watch nothing but state own media. For us here in Canada, there's no such thing as state ran. There is no way that the government can simply censor as it wishes for its own purposes and relations with China. Censorship laws can only be passed by the House of Commons (meaning the elected members of parliament) or set by the Supreme Court.
Yet another statement from China, misunderstanding the world outside, that will not be taken seriously by anyone free to think for himself in public. The fact that China AND the Bush administration have to hide the truth from the media represents how weak their cause really is.

smallpox · 05-01-2008, 05:22 PM

The US government censors stuff, now everything western/democratic censors stuff......
Sight, I bet China denies the Nanjing Massacre because the Japanese media did and they're both in East Asia? -- why not realise the folly in that and apply it elsewhere?

pug_ster · 05-01-2008, 06:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by smallpox

No, like every other apologist of the CCP, you try to bring up wrongs of other states to say "hey, China isn't so bad..."
This metaphor exemplifies this very fallacious arguments always brought forward by the likes of you.

Another simpleton's response. I just proved why there is such bias in Western Media and your response is 'why china isn't so bad...'

Quote:

See what I meant? When I call for democracy I do not call for an American-like system. I advocate a British style parliamentary system.

I don't know what the "thing" is, but yes, I have heard many dissidents in China speaking to foreign media because they are censored by CCTV.
And these quotes do no at all represent anything I said or I have heard thus far in these forums.

I'm talking about the problem with 'Free speech' and you have to go off tangent and talking about democracy.

Quote:

I don't know how many times I've said this so far but:
THERE"S NO SUCH THING AS WESTERN MEDIA.
You have so many different media included in it, each with its owner, its own bias and its interest. For Chinese people, and apologists, it's hard to understand because you watch nothing but state own media. For us here in Canada, there's no such thing as state ran. There is no way that the government can simply censor as it wishes for its own purposes and relations with China. Censorship laws can only be passed by the House of Commons (meaning the elected members of parliament) or set by the Supreme Court.
Yet another statement from China, misunderstanding the world outside, that will not be taken seriously by anyone free to think for himself in public. The fact that China AND the Bush administration have to hide the truth from the media represents how weak their cause really is.

You think that these many different companies with different agendas all of the sudden come together and call for war on Iraq. I don't know what they have in Canada, but the US have the Espionage Act of 1917 and Sedition Act of 1918 which imposed restrictions on free press during wartime fines up to $10,000 and 20 years prison for people publishing "...disloyal, profane, scurrilous, or abusive language about the form of government of the United States or the Constitution of the United States, or the military or naval forces of the United States..." Call it whatever you want to call it, but I call it Western Media because of restrictions on free press.

chaochao · 05-01-2008, 07:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gaile

Your comments precisely revealed where your problem is: you know little about China and western countries. The problems in China are not all the same kind as in western Europe and America. In western countries, the unsatisfactory people can speak up and their voices will be heard. They can veto the government they don't like. This is the important for a country to be healthy and stable.

In China, there is only one voice, the voice of the leaders broadcasted by government-controlled media. Angry people have no way to express themselves, and outsiders know little about how suffering they are. This is dangerous, and especially when angers are suppressed by armed force. Be careful to put CCP and people together, the truth, whatever they(CCP) do, they don't talk to people, and they don't ask for the consent from people .The problems in China are determined by the political mechanism--no free speech and democracy. This has to be changed before China can make significant progress. If you love China, you should put pressure on CCP to reform, not blinding supporting CCP-- this is not the right way to go.

yeah, western people can vote, but head or tail, people lose eventually! They protest one party and vote for an other party, but both the parties are just one side of the same coin.
All bad things you said about CCP may exist to some extent, but you really
exaggerate that！
我觉得你应该是中国人吧，属于跑到西方的那些轮子功和藏独和所谓的狗屁自由斗士，你说的这些话我早就听那些可耻的叛国者说了很多遍！我也能上他们的网站，说的简直都是放屁。我们的CCP是存在很多问题，中国还远没有达到社会主义的要求，但我们，党和人民都在努力！我们都希望祖国强大！而你们这些民族罪人是唯恐中国不乱，好让你们的主子能再次像从前那样奴役中国人民！你们的所作所为只能让人民更加看清你们的真实面目！我知道来这里发帖宣传是你们的工作，你们就靠这个让你们的主子出钱养着你们！一群数典忘祖的卖国狗！有本事你来中国宣传你的屁话吧，你看看是CCp先办你还是我们人民先办你！