Dear Marco,

If I heard you right, you told Javad yesterday night that, before 1949, Tibet was independent...
I don't want to argue on the source of your viewpoint, but if you read this page,
History of Tibet - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
(I should admit that the present government might not recognize the legitimacy of the content on this page, ) you will see that, your view on tibet's independence might be based on a Sino-British treaty in 1906 by which the "Government of Great Britain engages not to annex Tibetan territory or to interfere in the administration of Tibet. The Government of China also undertakes not to permit any other foreign State to interfere with the territory or internal administration of Tibet."
Well, I have to make the comment that, during 1840--1912, many european countries, including Italy, invaded in China and forced the government to sign many treaties, including paying money for the wars and ceding territory to them. Among those countries, Britain, Japan, France, Russian and Germany did most of the job.
On the foundation of Republic of China, the government declared that China don't recognize those treaties.
But since the nation was too weak to fight against those countries, most of the situations remained the same.

Before 1997, you might have said that HongKong is part of Britain.
Before 1999, you might have said that Marco is part of Portugal.

But both of these two cities were RETURNED to China.

Now it comes to tibet.
As we know, DaLai Lama is simply a religious title, how come he take the responsibility and go around the world to persue the so-called autonomy of tibet.
why?
Because he is not simply a religious leader.
He is a political figure under a religious cover.
My knowledge is too limited to give a profile of the traditional tibetan system. If you have more interest, you will study this part by yourself.
But I have to remind you of the history when religion interfered in politics.

What's more, I don't think it's right to spread any information without validation. As to tibet, we have the sources from tibetans and the current government. So far as I see, the western is inclined to believe whatever the tibetans says but refuse any information, even evidence, from the goverment.

Well, the western world was smart enough to found the modern science, but if i remember right, many pioneers were burnt. Maybe I can draw the conclusion that sometimes the western is extreme.

I have no more comments right now. Please answer me via email if you like, but do not discuss it with me face-to-face. I am afraid of losing the control of myself thus spoil the situation.

Regards!

Frank


PS: our government might have many drawbacks after 59's year development, but I don't see any government without drawbacks, no matter, according to their declaration, however super their system is. So it might be a better choice to give our government some patience. Anyone who don't see through coloured spectacles will see that the government is making progresses on HUMAN RIGHTS and on politics,even more than on economics.

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yes, Dalai Lama was ever the biggest slave owner in old Tibet! In old Tibet, even one grass string can exchange a serf, if a serf borrowed a bag of flour from the serf owner, he had to spend his whole life to pay back the interests. Now Dalai Lama planed the riot and wanna interrupt the torch delivery, he is actually a wolf with a monk's cover.

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借我三千虎贲，复我浩荡中华! 汉旗指处，望尘逃遁！敢犯我中华天威者，虽远必诛!

Do you have any evidence for that whatsoever?

(I'm hoping you'll have more than "confessions" extracted by the police.)

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No Fear No Hate No Pain No Broken Hearts

I don't think it's necessarily by Dalai Lama himself. As we all know it, his influence on the exile Tibetans, particularly those from the more radical elements such as the Tibetan Youth Congress has been waning. However, I don't think it was spontaneous either. For example, the distance between Lhasa and Gannan is as much as that between northern and southern Europe, yet large scale riots erupted nearly simultaneously in these two places. It is difficult to imagine such would be the result of spontaneous venting of anger towards Hanification or social injustice. Someone were stirring up the discontent, and you can read my post "Roadmap..." for more information.

A well-informed observer would also notice that the population (~100k) of the exile Tibetans were mostly formed by former Nobels, Lords, high-rank Lamas, and their offsprings. While their voices are also important, much more important is what the Tibetan people (several millions) living in Tibet thinks. The exile government drew a picture that the majority of these people are unhappy, and their strongest evidence for this is that ~3,000 Tibetans crossed the border to visit Dalai Lama every year. What they tried to hide from the world is the fact that most of these people are pilgrims wanting to get the blessing from HHDL, and the majority of which returned to China after the visit. Most videos, blogs, pictures available to date show the opposite to what the exile government claimed.

I understand that western people are fed up with the CCP's propaganda, what really is beyond me is that why they would so easily fall for anything the Tibetan government in exile has to offer, even though they produced a fair share of lies themselves as well.

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What we've got here is... failure to communicate. Some men you just can't reach. --CHL

It's a commonly-made claim, which is why I was wondering what the evidence was.

You may be right, and you've previously mentioned the amount of rocks used as possible evidence of stockpiling. However the level of organisation could be extremely low - just people talking on mobile phones, without any need for emigre leadership.

I wasn't sure what to make of that. The website had the look of something determined to find fault with the German government, no matter what. So there's reference to "front organisations" and events are presented as if there's a sinister plan afoot, but to be honest I've no idea how plausible it is.

Yes, I can accept the Tibetan exiles "spin" and that they are capable to telling outright lies. However the Chinese government makes it easy for them to do so, since there's no journalistic verification possible (other than by the likes of Xinhua).

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No Fear No Hate No Pain No Broken Hearts

I think the commonly-made claim is the Dalai Clique... that includes a lot of people, not just HHDL himself. Many current Tibetan exile government leaders are current or ex-TYC members as well.

What about the rumors that someone spread that two Lamas in Drepung Monstary committed suicide which triggered the riots in the first place?

Let's leave it as a conspiracy theory. Are you aware that TYC has vowed to take any measure possible to achieve Tibetan independence? It wouldn't surprise me at all if they are behind the riots at all.

I guess that answered the question I added between our posts.

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What we've got here is... failure to communicate. Some men you just can't reach. --CHL

Every Chinese here are trying to give reasons for their country's occupation of Tibet. Why don't you stop giving reasons and just say "Yes, we are now in control of Tibet and we will do everything that is necessary to keep the territory in peace and what the f*** are you westerners are going to do about it.

It begs the question "why use the tem "Dalai Clique if the DL himself is not involved?" But in any case, it is often claimed the DL himself has organised the riots. Perhaps people are lead by the use of "Dalai Clique" to assume so...

Or the rumours of the beating up of two monks, or the rumours about the sheep insult... Rumours spread fast, and don't require coordination to spread.

To be honest, I know next to nothing about the TYC. I'll look them up whwn I've a chance.

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No Fear No Hate No Pain No Broken Hearts

Actually that argument is made from time to time.

What's the Indian take on Tibet nitsad?

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No Fear No Hate No Pain No Broken Hearts

Why not? We need both the objective historical perspective and the reality check to what would lead to the best future. Apparently, TGIE is incapable of doing either.

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What we've got here is... failure to communicate. Some men you just can't reach. --CHL