nitsad

Thanks for reminding. Whatever is going on in Tibet is an internal matter of China . I was asking what you Brit has got to do with it. May be you have sown the seeds but that was 100 years ago. You have done enough.

mikado

Well many people don't agree that Tibet is purely an internal matter for the Chinese, as many people don't agree the Chinese occupation of Tibet is legitimate.

On top of that, rightly or wrongly a lot of people in the West concern themselves with what goes on in other countries, especially where people seem to be oppressed or abused. Sure, this is sometimes misplaced, and could sometimes be seen to be hypocritical, but sometimes some good is achieved.

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GlobalSmiles

My big issue with china is it joke of a constitution. What constitution of any value protects the state from the people instead of the other way around. Everything that is wrong with china is done through its backwards legal system.
Knowing well their xenophobic tenancies we can be assured nothing will happen to loosen things up while pressure is being applied, but after a time more individual liberties will hopefully come to the chineese and my uncalled for fears of China will melt away.

China is going to be the world's daddy soon, how they view the individual and the state is going to be a very big deal when they are the superpower. As a chineee citizen if you cannot see the west's reason for concern then you are a hopeless I think.

kwc

How could you judge whether the citizen of a country is being oppressed or not? You have not step your foot into the teritory and yet you base your judgement on some political motivated people outside the country to slander the whole nations of lies. Is that human rights?

Most westerners and protesters do not care of other countries sufferings but base their judgement on purely jealousy and hatred on other communities they dislike. How and when did you guys whimper your voice on Palestinians that are being gun down by israelis! Are they adhering to human rights like you claim? How about Iraqis who are killed by your British and American troops? Are they not worth their lives for you to demonstrate to your tyranny governments?

mikado

Hi kwc, I think you are jumping to conclusions as to what I think and what Westerners in general think.

Personally I try to get information from more than one source. Since the Chinese government limits free discussion of Tibet independence, and free reporting within Tibet, it is not all that easy to get as much information as I’d like. However there are some consistent themes that are reported from China repeatedly and from a wide variety of sources:

- lack of discussion of “independence” issues
- lack of information (excluding government sources)
- harassment of people apparently deemed subversive or “splittist”
- an opaque and unfair legal system, with numerous reports of police torture, unfair trials, prison brutality and “disappearances” of individuals

The upshot of all this is that it seems impossible to know what most Tibetans actually think. If it’s the case that most Tibetans would prefer to live in an independent state then they would indeed be “oppressed”.

I think you should reread your first paragraph about slandering whole nations But you’re entirely free to criticise the West – there’s much to criticise, and many would agree with you.

Some Westerners do not care at all about other people, and many Westerners are ill-informed and easily manipulated. I guess the West is just like everywhere else in that respect. But you should know that issues such as Israel and the Iraq war are extremely controversial here, and that many people who condemn China over the Tibet issue also condemn Israel over its treatment of the Palestinians, for example. You should also know that the Israel situation and the Iraq situation are both very complex – there is no simple black & white position (you may feel the same about Tibet…)

I think the West (and the UK and US in particular) would be in a much stronger position, morally, if we had not invaded Iraq. But I don’t think the invasion of Iraq gives China any kind of free pass either. If the UK or US do bad things in the Middle East then let anyone criticise them for it. And likewise China – let anyone criticise bad things there.

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nitsad

"MORALLY STRONGER POSITION" is that a joke, mikado?

mikado

No

To be clear, when I said "morally stronger" I meant that if we had not invaded Iraq we would have been in a morally stronger position than we are curently at, having invaded Iraq. But the Iraq issue is controversial - there's moral arguments in favour of the invasion as well as against. Best discussed in an Iraq thread, I think.

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No Fear No Hate No Pain No Broken Hearts