Shiva_TD

I would support any People fighting against the tyranny of their own government. That does not include going to war against their nation which would undoubtably result in a far greater tyranny than their own government could inflict.

By the way, not a single nation fought against Germany because of what Hitler did to the Jews (and others) nor did any nation attack the USSR although Stalin's purge killed far more Russians that the holocaust in Germany and we won't even mention the many tens of millions that died under Mao in China.

And even had the European theater of WW II been about stopping the atrocities against the Jews there were three times as many soldiers killed in Europe than there were people killed by the holocaust.

War is the ultimate form of tyranny and is a far greater threat than what any government can do to its own people.

ArrackiFalconX10

Thank you all for your response, Mikado, Shiva, Aztek:
I see that that you (Mikado) that you have taken the perception of Shiva on the weal of the people constituting a vote of 2. You further stated that one can't tell if there's no representative process, however, the U.S., are masters at film footage and propaganda. As previously stated, do you think the U.S. is gonna interview or seek out those in favor of a Monarch, in addition, when it wants a country to abdicate is institution? Remember "Wag the Dog"? Of course you know that U.S., is not gonna play the card of equal coverage. How you can tell is when the people are prospering and not protesting, but what is formerly known as a favorable government can quickly change when the country is sanctioned, because the government is unable to care for its people. Of course a people will want a change and seek a new government. Dude, the American government will even suspend diplomatic immunity in which is a guaranteed right when a country even attempts to trade with another country outside of Germany, England, and itself.
We have two votes for trade rights, because a country should be able to provide for itself and the inhabitants thereof. So why doesn't the U.N., do something? Iran may not be a partner of Nato, one might not be a member of its local town business association, but should that prohibit you from making a living for yourself? Though you may have more stringent paper work and inspections and some fees, but one should have the freedom to survive.
I know that you guest have been more than diligent and have not abrogated or abridged any rule. Just be careful when texting please, because some readers take things out of context and I don't want Homeland security saying that anyone is a terrorist when everyone is engaging in friendly dialogue. Take care people, and talk to me. We have so far nailed down some major issues, and have 2 votes for trade and 2 for right of the governed. I see that you are able to slowly let the politics of issues subside to reach a competent goal. You people are great and I wish that there were more of you around me, because you make things seem possible. Thanks.

ArrackiFalconX10

ArrackiFalconX10

Do you remember the issue in that Russian Theater when the people were gased? I've been hearing more issues about that, and I thought their was a ban on chemical warfare. I wonder just how developed are these gas agents and how prominent are they now with these new battles and new population infrastructures? I wanna know just how much the CIA uses this technique to paralyse a household with the help of some home owners association using the homes ventilation and air conditioning unit as the tool of breach? How could anyone fight this who have been targeted probably sore when the agent wears off, feeling like they have been abducted by aliens? I guess that would be the commonality, is the feeling the tension, soreness, and pain or burning and you'll know you've been gased and poked. They would probably call this national security tactics, but I think this would be war crimes whatever one wants to call it. Dude, this is surely a new day. Who would have thought people would have to worry about stuff like this, like a HOA taking over your life etc., by gasing you and your family. I wonder has anything like this has ever happen to college students in dorms, or apartment complexes because they seem to be the prime candidates, and no that they can't fight something they can't see, but all they would have in common is the feeling of pain in genetalia areas. This has to be happening more than I thought it was, because this has to be a factor in why people are so cold, even against people who have been raped and nothing is never done because others have been done the same way and know that no-one will do anything.

Shiva_TD

I would argue with both statements.

1) A government is legitimate if the people living under it accept its treatment of them. If they don't accept that treatment they have the recourse of revolution.

2) The United Nations cannot set the standards under which a People are willing to live nor does it have the right or authority to establish what is or is not a ligitmate government. Only the People living under a government can set those standards.

libertarian0507

So you said that war is the greatest tyranny,yet you advocate violent revolution against the government. I just wanted to know if you are against war at all cost, or do you think that it is sometimes necessary? How bad does the tyrannical government have to be before it is right to fight? I was hoping you could clear this up for me.

Darkseid

If it ain't Draneian, it ain't worth it. LOL!

I too disagree with the external politics of the United States. Forcing Democracy down people's throats isn't a good idea.

I like federal governments. As they tend to be the least oppressive and the most favorable. UEA, Germany, Switzerland, Austria, Mexico, United States, Canada, Australia, Brazil, and the European Union are some good or decent examples of a federal government. But of course like anything invented by a human being, it has its own flaws.

America puts Native Americans on dirt infested reservations rather than actual autonomous communities. Switzerland and the United States are operated mainly by corportists. Germany's legislature makes no sense. Mexico still oppresses the Mayans in the South. Canada disregards the interest of the Quebecers. These are just to name a few.

But I have taken the liberty of examining how a federalist system should run and found it to be quite the system of human benefaction. Behold I say, Draneism, a five branched government with a multi-level scheme of federalism on each level of administration (nation-state-city).

The best mixture of African, Asian, Hispanic, of European political ideology that best fits the wishes of human beings without oppressing them or disregarding their cultural upbringing. The only problem is that China, France, Greece, and other such unitarian bodies won't accept it, because it is federal.

America shouldn't be looking to promote democracy. It should be looking to promote federalism.

libertarian0507

I tend to agree that a federal government is the best. America is actually a federal republic. I do not understand however, what you mean by stating that the United States is run by corpratists. Yes, the US has many corporations and I do not believe that is necessarily a bad thing. A lot of people seem to jump on the band wagon of anticorporationalism,however the truth is that these corporations that are bad mouthed so much are the reason for the prosperity in places such as the US and Switzerland.They represent the massive infrastructure of the US , and are the reason for America`s power and influence. While they should not be allowed to control government, they are an undeniable, and essential part of the global economy. I don`t think that America should try to export any form of government,I think we should exert infuence, but the nations of the world have a right to form whatever governments they please. It is not, nor should it be the US`s job to change forms of government that we disagree with. However, if those governments conflict with the US`s prosperity, then we should take action, mostly diplomatic. The US has way too many domestic problems to be worrying about what Zimbabwe ,for example is doing. I am not an isolationist, but I think we should pick our battles carefully.

libertarian0507

I agree with you in principle, but not in practice. You see the UN should not have the right to dictate what is a legitimate government, however because a nation whose government is not recognized by the UN would not have the means to really conduct diplomacy or relations with the rest of the world, so in fact would be denied legitimacy in foreign affairs. Taiwan is a good example of this. Taiwan has been seeking membership in the UN , to secure a place at the negotiation table against the PRC, and hold a valid argument of sovereignty. In a domestic sense however, I agree with you, if the people do not support the government at all, it is dishonest to call them legitimate, as they do not have the support of the people they probably are either not legitimate, or simply don`t care what the people think (N.Korea for example) .

Darkseid

Who funds the politicians? Who did Bush got most of money for his political campaigns of 2000 and 2004 from? Who was backing Reagan? Who was backing Harding and Coolidge? Corporations/Big Businesses.

Let me show you a quote from a dictator about his government related to this argument.

"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." -- Benito Mussolini

a lot you can say about corporatism leading to financial success can be said the same about the government structure from unitarianism.

libertarian0507

Just because Mussolini thought that Corporations could help fund him does not mean that your point is credible. If you imagine that all corporations did not exist, you would be taking away technological research, medical research and innovation, the jobs of millions of Americans and the wealth of America. My point is this, if you are so anti-corporation, what do think is the alternative? Who is going to mass produce medicine and essential products we all take for granted in these times? Granted there are corporations that cause problems like exxon spilling oil, or lobbyist that lobby on behalf of corps. for things that are not in the nations best interests, however there are akso responsible corporations that make great citizens like Microsoft , which donates millions to charity. I am a big believer in capitalism, and a corporation is simply the result of a small business that succeeded. I don`t see how this is a bad thing at all.