Hehe, it's always good to meet my compatriots.:P

why do you believe 'the west' is out to support separation? its obvious that no western country will ever intervene in china by force.

Only the Chinese believe that Tibet has always belonged to China. That’s because such official viewpoints have been instilled in the Chinese people over the past several decades by large scale propaganda campaigns from the Beijing government. The Chinese people have been brainwashed and have lost the ability to discover the truth. Even a brief review of Chinese and Tibetan history shows that Tibet was never a part of China until it was invaded and occupied by China in the 1950s.

In the Tang Dynasty, China and Tibet signed a peace treaty, clearly stating their borders and positions. During the Song Dynasty, China and Tibet had almost no contact. China's claim to Tibet is based primarily on the assertion that Tibet was once ruled by the Yuan Dynasty (1271-1368). This was when Mongolia occupied most of Asia, including China, Tibet, Vietnam, and Korea. The Mongolians established a capital on Chinese territory to rule over the conquered lands of their empire. Firstly, if such a military occupation qualifies as historical basis for ownership, it should he made by the Mongolians, not the Chinese. Furthermore, if the fact that Tibet was once ruled by China in this fashion forms a legal basis for their claim on Tibet, why have the Chinese never made the same claim on Vietnam, Korea and other parts of Asia which were annexed and ruled over by the Mongols at the same time? Clearly, it is an illogical claim.

Since China's Ming Dynasty had minimal relations with Tibet, the Qing Dynasty(1644-1911) is the only other historical ground for the Chinese to demonstrate their claim to Tibet. However, unbiased history books do not substantiate this claim.

It is true that the Qing Empire had relations with Tibet. Upon the request of the Dalai Lama, the Qing military entered Tibet four times to help settle internal rebellions and to defeat external invasions. However, it is clearly groundless for the Chinese to claim ownership of Tibet because the Qing Army helped to maintain stability in the region. This is as absurd as the United States claiming rule over Kuwait just because the U.S. army helped defeat the Iraqi invaders.

The Chinese should pay due heed to the reality of the situation in Tibet today. Since the Chinese occupation of Tibet, the human rights of the Tibetan people have been wantonly trampled upon and they are systematically discriminated against and persecuted by the Chinese colonialists.

When the Chinese illegally invaded Tibet, an independent state, they agreed a seventeen point agreement which guaranteed no alteration of Tibetan political, cultural, and religious systems and institutions. Since then, this agreement has been wilfully ignored by the Chinese and over 1.2 million Tibetans have been killed and more then 6,000 religious sites destroyed.

In 1959, 1960, 1964, and 1997 the International Commission of Jurists examined Chinese policy in Tibet, violations of human rights in Tibet, and the position of Tibet in international law. The International Commission of Jurists found that the People's Republic of China had committed `acts of genocide in an attempt to destroy the Tibetans as a religious group' and that Tibet was at least `a de facto state' prior to 1951

The United Nations General Assembly also adopted resolutions in 1959, 1961, and 1965 calling on the People's Republic of China to ensure respect for fundamental human rights of the Tibetan people and for their distinctive cultural and religious life, and to cease practices which deprive the Tibetan people of their fundamental rights and freedoms, including the right to self-determination. All,of course, ignored.

Is it any wonder that the people of Tibet are once again rising up against their oppressors!

The OP contained a video that had profane insults toward its viewers, so the posting of the video was an ad hominem attack on the whole forum.

Ban issued for the OP.

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With the Chinese propaganda aside, I tend to look at this and similar issues in a different way. I like the idea of everyone living in peace, being happy with where they live and content with their rulers. I don't like the fact that one country may conquer another and claim that country as part of their own, but it happens. Sometimes it's for the best, but only sometimes.

I feel people who are conquered have two choices. They can accept their new rulers and live by their laws, or they can revolt. If they can gain support from outside entities for their revolt then heck, so be it. I can't say that I support or condemn the protests and riots in Tibet. But I respect those who make a choice. To sit idly by and simply complain with no action only festers discontent in a nation that should otherwise be united. Without unity the potential for violent revolution will always linger behind a false display of conformity, and protests and riots such as these will continue to plague a nation until it becomes so. China should learn to comprimise and not treat their people unjustly. I know that is not the communist way, but it's the only way they'll garner stability in a multi-ethnic populace such as China.

Since you bring on the Mongolians and Manchurians, more than 5 million Mongolians live in China, while Outer Mongolia only has more than 2 million Mongolians. Manchurians only live in China. The Mongols and Manchus are in Chinese Communist Party, in Chinese universities, in Chinese hospital, and in every aspect of Chinese society, which gives China the perfect authority over Tibet. China lost Outer Mongolia under Soviet Union pressure, and China is able to keep Tibet. Regardless it is Qing Dynasty, or the Repbulic of China, and its remaining part in Taiwan, they all include Tibet as inseperable part of China as well as People's Republic of CHina.

QIng emperors not only held military operations in Tibet, but also specified exactly how Tibetan lamas can be chosen and inaugurated: Golden Urn Ceremony. Dalai Lama and Panchan Lama have to go to Beijing periodically to kowtow to Chinese Emperors.

In 1705, the 6th Dalai Lama disobeyed Buddhist regulations on sexual conducts. Kangxi Emperor ordered him to be arrested and sent to Beijing for harsh punishments. The 6th Dalai Lama died in his way traveling to Beijing the next year. This shows Qing Dynasty emperors’ absolute authority over local Tibetan spiritual leader Dalai Lama.

From 1719 to 1720, Qing Dynasty held major military campaigns twice in Tibet to destroy the Uyghur rebellion troops that have escaped from Xinjiang into Tibet. After Qing general Po Luoding conquered Lhasa, Qing Dynasty executed the local Tibetan leader who supported the Uyghur troops.

In 1727, Arbuba rebelled in Tibet. Qing Dynasty executed Arbuba, Po Luoding was appointed as the Tibetan leader.

In 1750, many political murders happened in Tibet, Qing Dynasty Qianlong Emperor declared “The Regulations on Tibet”. This regulation abolished secular Tibetan nobles, and the political power was given to the 7th Dalai Lama. This regulation from Qianlong Emperor established Dalai Lama’s theocratic political power. Monastery began to master political power in Tibet. The combination of government and temples began in Tibet in 1750.

In 1792, the Kingdom of Nepal invaded Tibet. Qianlong Emperor raised military campaign in Tibet again and repelled Nepal invaders. Qianlong Emperor declared “The Second Regulation on Tibet”. This regulation said that Qing Governor in Tibet has higher political power than Dalai Lama. The determination process of the new Dalai Lama must come from the Qing Governor in Tibet under a series of complicated procedures. Ever since then, the birth of new Dalai Lamas and other lamas must be censored by Qing Emperors. In 1905 and 1910, Qing Emperors abolished the 13th Dalai Lama twice, and then reinstated him.

In 1844, Daoguang Emperor punished the Tibetan noble Cemerlin by banishing him to Heilongjiang.

In 1894, the 13th Dalai Lama wrote a letter to Guangxu Emperor with ten questions:

1. Dalai Lama thought the reason that Tibetan troops lost to British army in 1888 is mostly because of the weakness of Qing Governor in Tibet: Shentai. On the other hand, Qing Governor in Tibet thought that Dalai Lama had no idea of the power of the British and was a negative influence on defending Tibet against the British.
2. Dalai Lama thought that the Sikkim should belong to Tibet. Qing Dynasty officials said that Sikkim was given to Britain during Xianfeng Emperor. At that time, Tibetan local nobles did not raise any objection. Now, it was already too late to stop the British in Sikkim.
3. Dalai Lama hoped to stop Indian Tea from coming into Tibet.
4. Dalai Lama complained that Qing Dynasty did not give Tibet enough money to repair the monasteries and golden temples.
5. Dalai Lama said the King of Bhutan was friendly to Tibet, and asked Qing Dynasty to reward the King of Bhutan.
6. Dalai Lama asked Qing emperors to give Dalai Lama more vassal land to administer, which is rejected by Qing Emperor.
7. Dalai Lama accused the British of avoiding taxes when they were doing business in Tibet India border.
8. Dalai Lama accused the British of selling guns, fire powders, cigarettes, alcohols and knives to Tibet, which is against Tibetan traditional values.
9. Dalai Lama said that Tibetan local armies did not have enough weapons, and he asked for more weapons from Beijing.
10. Dalai Lama complained that the Qing Governor in Tibet was unfair.

These 10 questions from Dalai Lama reflected all aspects of life in Tibet covering from politics, economy to military. It is obvious that Qing Dynasty Guangxu Emperor was afraid of Britain after Opium War. Dalai Lama was unhappy about that, but Dalai Lama could not make any independent political decisions about Tibet. Everything is decided by Qing government in Beijing.

In 1908, the 13th Dalai Lama traveled to Beijing to kowtow to Cixi Dowage Empress and Guangxu Emperor. He petitioned for several times for more power in Tibet. It is obvious that even when Qing Dynasty was weak and was soon going to collapse, it still has absolute authority over Tibet.

After Qing Dynasty collapsed, Republic of China, troubled by numerous domestic and international warfare, did not exert effective control in Tibet.


Between 1912 and 1951, RO China's authority over Tibet was only nominal. However, still NO major country had EVER recognized Tibet as an independent country any time in the history. After 1951, CCP promised no land refore in Tibet Autonomous Region: Utsang under Dalai Lama in the 17 points, but never said that for Amdo and Kham. After the rebellion in 1959, of course, all monasteries must yield their lands to the serfs.

Tibetan population has grown from 1.19 million in 1951 to 5.8 million in 2000. If that is genocide, then any race in the world is under genocide.

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That's one of the most convoluted arguments I've ever heard. It just doesn't hold water. The fact that Mongols form part of the ethnic mix in China does not constitute any form of grounds or justification of ownership over Tibet. On the basis of your argument you might as well say that millions of Scots live in England. They are in every aspect of English society, the prime Minister is even Scottish. That gives them the the perfect authority should they decide to aggressively lay claim over England does it!

Let me remind you of historical fact. As already stated, upon the request of the Dalai Lama, the Qing military entered Tibet four times to help settle internal rebellions and to defeat external invasions. Later, an "Imperial Resident in Tibet" was sent by the Qing Emperor as a special envoy to aid Tibet with administrative works. Due to their admiration for the Dalai Lama's spiritual power, the Qing Emperors intended to help strengthen Tibet. However, all regulations and statutes clearly state that the Dalai Lama and the Resident in Tibet had equal positions and seniority, and that important matters should "be solved after the consultation made by and between the Dalai Lama and the Resident." The Dalai Lama and the Qing Emperor had reciprocal seniority during that time period. If Tibet was one of the Empire's provinces, the right of the Emperor's envoy would have been greater than that of the Dalai Lama.

Several historical examples clearly demonstrate the equality of the Dalai Lama and the Qing emperor. In 1632, the Qing Emperor, Shunzhi, invited the Fifth Dalai Lama for a friendly visit to China. Upon the Dalai Lama's arrival, the Emperor himself went as far as 20 kilometers out of the capital to meet him. The Emperor would never have met a leader of his subordinate territory with such an honourable, grand rite. Historical records show that there had never been an emperor to do so, not even to meet a king of a foreign country. Furthermore, in the book, A Biography of the Dalai Lama, written by Ya Hanzhang, a Chinese expert on Tibet, and published by the official Chinese publishing house, there are prints of two mural paintings depicting Emperor Shunzhi and the Fifth Dalai Lama, and Empress Dowager Ci Xi and the Thirteenth Dalai Lama sitting side by side on the throne. This friendly relationship lasted almost 260 years through the whole period of the Qing Dynasty.

After the deaths of Emperor Guangxu and Empress Dowager Ci Xi, the Qing army took over Lhasa by force and soon occupied all of Tibet. But they were driven out by Tibetans in less than three years. In 1913, the Thirteenth Dalai Lama clearly announced: "Tibet is an independent country."

During the period of the Republic of China (1911-1949), President Chang Kai-shek twice sent his special envoys to Lhasa to persuade the Tibetans to become subjects of the Republic. But the Tibetan leaders never consented.

In 1990 a total of 478 correspondences between China and the Tibetan government were published in Beijing, clearly demonstrating that Tibet was an independent country during the time of the Republic of China.

Look what you have done to Serbia. the latest example.

although id hate to think it what if alaska oneday desiced to try and become its own country because all the ecsomos(spelling sucks lol) voted on that and 100 % supported that movement??? should and could they do without the us fighting to keep it part of america?
what if all of hawaii did that. they if all residents decided to shun the usa and wanted to become part of china. how would the us gov responed??

that situation is kinda like whats hapening with taiwain. what if the democratic party all moved to hawaii and craimed indipendance from the us with 100% resident support??