Logic thinking - Political Forum

bluebret · 06-08-2007, 02:24 PM

1.To say that there is no on going white genocide in South Africa(blacks hate whites) is to deny apartheid.(why would you have a problem with people that treated you nicely)
2.To say that black people in South Africa love white people is to call apartheid a hoax.

What is it gone be.......

Sebelius for VP, not Hillary · 06-08-2007, 02:46 PM

Well for starters, it would be nice if you could show some proof of this alleged genocide on whites in South Africa.

Also, I can tell just from your word choice that it's hyperbole. You cheapen the word genocide to use it to describe whatever is going on in South Africa, which is not genocide.

WEB

africanhope · 06-09-2007, 12:09 PM

Well, Blue - I am white, and in South Africa, this is the best proof I can give you that you are wrong. My life is not in danger because of my colour, I have a very good, and happy, life.

And WEB, what Is happening in SA is called crime, and all races suffer under it.

So, Blue, PLEASE, (I seem to always say thin in threads started by you) PROOF!!!!

AH

drgoodtrips · 06-09-2007, 01:35 PM

Aw shucks... I saw the thread title and thought this was going to be an entirely different discussion...

What it's going to be, bluebret, is that I saw nothing in your OP that is logical - just your heavily weighted opinions, clearly expressed to incite adversarial discussion. If you decide, however, that you want to discuss logic... I'm your huckleberry

bluebret · 06-10-2007, 05:39 AM

http://www.stopboergenocide.com/index2.html

africanhope · 06-10-2007, 06:16 AM

WEll first, the term Boer is used by the far right wing ultra nationalist Afrikaners. Most Afrikaners do not use this term. Also, it is quite funny in the web page when they say mixed races are also Boers, the rest of the webpage makes it clear this is not so, and I would love to see any mixed race, Afrikaans speaking person join a Boer orginisation. And anybody, who has the exact same heritage as them, but disagrees with their radical ideas, are not seen as Boers. For instance, my father's family traces it's roots back to early dutch settelment, to the Great Trek, to both Anglo-Boer wars, yet,m because my father does not agree with their radical policies, he is not seen as a boer, and since my mother is English...well

Second, like you, this webpage makes a lot of claims withour proof. They say how many Boers are being murderd (how dop they know they are Boers, not all whites are, but okay) but leave outr the stats about how many blacks and other races are murderd. Why is this important? Because that proofs there is no genocide going on against whites, but a huge crime problem that needs to be solved.

Third - Apartheid was iplemented by the NAtionalist government, with it's roots in the NAzi movement (Ossewa Brandwag). They where the first to use the word 'Boer' to futher their nationalist cause amongst Afrikaners. This web page's futile attept to distance themselves from apartheid is quite funny actually.

Fourth - They use guncontril as a proof of the genod\cide. Our country has a HUGE problem with violent crime, and these laws are an attempt to curb this. ALL South Africans are under these laws, not only whites.

5th - Under bill and laws, I guess this area is there to proof laws creating genocide against whites, they have one bill, this bill is designed to protect children from online porno and sex predators, so I fail to see how whites are being targeted...

6th - Land destrubuti0on works one the Un regocnised willing buyer willing seller principle. No person can be forced, under the const. to sell he's land to anyone. No Zim style landgrap thus.

7 - the Webpage says most Afrikaner charities have been forced to be closed, but again no proof. I can promise, as someone working in the fiield, this is not true,, most of the stron charities in SA are traditional Afrikaner ones. Go and look for the webpages of NG Welsyn, Ondersteunings Raad. FAMSA, CMR, and many many more.

And on the horrible pictures of the girl beaten up, and her mother raped, they fail to mention it was a white man who did it, it was quite a famous case. They then asked for donations for the Orania fund. Orania is an nationalist movement who bought a little town, and now run it as a Volkstaat (a Nations state). No blacks allowed there. So..... Not part off Apartheid, right!

I could go on, but that will just serve no purpose.

this websight does not give clear indication who they are afiliated with. They do give a link to the AWB, an extreme right wing movement, and they have pictures of the AWB's leader, the openly Nazi supporting Eugene Terreblanche. Also , the AWB emblem is a slight change of the Swatstika (instead of 4 arms, it has only 3). So it seems this is the view of this webpage. They have many terms and symbols on there that is defnity asotiated with racist radical far right wing nationalist groups in SA.

Again, as a white person, I have more rights now, than I had before 1994. Yes, we have problems, I am not denying this, but a genocide - why have I, or none of my family been kille,d attacked, murderd, kicked out of their homes, or anything like that then? Or am I just one of the REALLY REALLY lucky ones that it has not happend to anyone I know?
Genocide in South Africa?? It would be a joke if it was not so sad.

But thank you far at least attempting to give some backing to your views.!!

AH

Sebelius for VP, not Hillary · 06-10-2007, 07:01 AM

AH, look at this:

Genocide of South African Whites Happening Now : IMC-SA

Quote:

Genocide of South African Whites Happening Now
by nationalvanguard Wednesday, Dec. 03, 2003 at 10:27 AM

Will the horrors now suffered by Whites in southern Africa be repeated in Europe and America?

Unbelievably horrific torture-deaths are happening daily in the South African farmlands, writes New Zimbabwe -- yet the Jewish-controlled media in the West say almost nothing about it, while wailing endlessly about a single drug-crazed Black criminal who died while attacking police in Cincinnati. “South African farmers and their families are being slaughtered. The murders are accompanied by torture and rape. The sadism of the attacks suggests either dark perversion or systematic terror. Dr Gregory Stanton of Genocide Watch has even suggested that the killing could be classified as genocide.”

When multiracialists were demanding an end to White rule in South Africa they never debated whether the result might lead to horrible suffering for White women, men, and children. White activists in the West would ask why the rhetoric of multiracialists never includes the possible suffering that Whites might experience if the controversial multiracial experiment being performed on them fails.

“In South Africa, in the nine years following the end of apartheid and the ‘miracle’ of South Africa’s democratic election in 1994, more than 1,000 farmers have been killed. The death rate by murder for South African farmers is 313 per 100,000, perhaps the highest for any group of people on earth who are not at war.

"In 1997 four young men invaded the farm of Beatriz and Jose Freitas in the north-east of South Africa. Jose, who is disabled, was tied up while they ransacked the house. They asked Beatriz where her iron was. Then they dragged her to the laundry, took off her clothes, kicked her to the ground, raped her, poured oil over her, switched on the iron and applied it to her body. Her skin came away in flaps. Three years later Jose was shot dead. This attack, reported by the South African TV programme Carte Blanche, is not unusually gruesome. There are hundreds that are as bad or worse. Old men are forced to watch their wives being raped before the couple are painfully killed. Farmers and farmworkers are tortured over many hours. What is happening?

"There are two opposing theories. At one extreme, these attacks are seen as being directed as part of the ‘Second Revolution.’ The First Revolution was the takeover of South Africa by a black government. The Second Revolution, using terror, is the establishment of a radical black communist society and the expulsion of whites. Driving the white farmers off their land is part of this process. At the other extreme, the attacks are seen as being purely criminal and without political guidance or motives. The white farming lobby is inclined to believe the former; it points to Peter Mokaba, a prominent young ANC politician, who chanted, ‘Kill the Boer! Kill the farmer!’ to cheering black crowds. The ANC government says that it believes the latter.

"To explain the sadism, violence and the rape in the farm attacks, you need to understand only two things: the attacks are happening in an extremely violent country with very high unemployment, and the attackers are poor, ill-educated, fatherless, jobless, rootless young men — who happen to be black. South Africa’s murder rate is 58 per 100,000, perhaps the world’s highest. (The rate for England and Wales is 1.3.) I have lived a sheltered life, but a man was shot dead across the street from me; a motorist was clubbed to death with a hockey stick by another motorist at a crossroads near me; in the bushes outside the nearest pub, a young girl was gang-raped, had one of her nipples bitten off and her mouth wedged open with a wooden stick so that they could rape her again in the mouth; I saw the mortuary photograph of a young man who had been tied to a railway line by two friends so that the train had cut off his legs at the shins and his head between the upper and lower jaws. Every South African can give a similar account.”

White activists would ask if similar horrors are awaiting the West if multiracialists are successful in making Whites a vulnerable minority, surrounded by alien and disparate races.

"Jew controlled media", "multiracialists", "dark perversion", those terms only used by racists. Also, labelling any black person who wants freedom as a "communist" is exactly what white supremacists said and still do say about Martin Luther King Jr. Also, the persistent theme they claim of blacks going after white women, is another hallmark tactic of white supremacists. This was one of the first articles at the top of a Google search. Indicates to me that this whole thing is a scam.

WEB

bluebret · 06-10-2007, 07:35 AM

Again, as a white person, I have more rights now, than I had before 1994. Yes, we have problems, I am not denying this, but a genocide - why have I, or none of my family been kille,d attacked, murderd, kicked out of their homes, or anything like that then? Or am I just one of the REALLY REALLY lucky ones that it has not happend to anyone I know?

Yes you are lucky very lucky.Not like me.WHy do you think politics became a habit for me??,,,,Because a really got nothing to do in my live or what.

bluebret · 06-10-2007, 08:09 AM

1.The word boer is used by blacks to descripe a racist white,could have ben given 100 of year ago by Aficans
2.Yes one of the 8 steps of genocide is taking away a groups weapons.
3.The only legal method that can be use by a goverment is law see how Hitler changed the laws over a period of ten year before the w2.
4.Farmers get intimidated,fields burn ,cattel cut up alive(giveing the message that this will happen to the farmer) all thi shappen before the grabbing.
5.If they say that charities got closed could it met that if a fund gos to the needy that only maybe one white child will benefit out of 50 others(black kids,taking in consideration that there are 40 mil of balck and only 4 mil whites with 2.7 Afrikanrs
6.I can really go on,its just what you want to believe or hear.

africanhope · 06-10-2007, 08:49 AM

Yes, okay, that makes no sense, honestl;y, your post makes no sense at all.

That law has nothing to do with whites, so how is this relevsant, for one thing. And that is the only law they manage to put up on there. And yes, there is no charity that only helps Afrikaners, just like there is no chartiy that only helps Zulu's, or Xhosa's, or blacks for that matter. Because you are not allowedto discriminate in SA. And since, as you yourself say, there are a lot more black South Africans than white South Africans, and since more than 50% of Black South Africans live in accute poverty, whilst less than 15% of whites South Africans live in the same state, yes, more black South Africans will receive help than whites, because there is more that need help, smple as that. But no white South African is turned away. Ever.

Murders on farms, yup, know about those, the fields being burned (normal practice by farmers this time of the year, by the way), crops destroyed, cattle mutilated, never heard of that, and I live in a rural area.

And, and your own webpage says this - Boer is a term of pride for some people, and it is these peoples word for themselves, but now, all of a sudden, you claim otherwise?

Again. Yes, I am a social work doing my post grad. I am studying under an government bursary - they know I am white, by the way. No one, and this is the truth, no one in my family is with out a job, and I include my broader family, uncles, cousins, the whole thing, except those wwho are retired of course.

So is none of my friends, except one, who is looking for a job, after he quit his previous one, one week ago. There is also another friend, but he is just between jobs, starting at an government department next month.

I have black friends, quite a few, I work in black areas, and have never, ever been insulted because of my skin colour. I have never been attacked or discriminated against because of my skin colour.

I was attacked in school a few times. This was pre-1994, and because my mother is British, some kids, also calling themselves Boers, attacked me a few times. And the old governments laws discriminated against me, as I am gay.

There is no genocide, no plan to get rid of us. But I am sure next you will start quoating Siener van REnsburg and Ururu.

By the way, you of course do not need to answer this - are you Afrikaans?

Ah

PS. Hey Web, yup. There is no doubt about the racist undertones (and noit that deep under) of these stuff. The language used is quite well known here, and almost no one, even the right wingers, take it seriously anymore.

AH