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06-03-2007, 08:50 AM
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Moderator
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Join Date: Oct 2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by africanhope
If China has such wonderfull solutions to corruption, why are they quite keen to support corrupt governments in Africa?
AH
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Chasing profits has a tendency to cloud ones vision. |
06-04-2007, 02:15 AM
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Viscount
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I truly think to say poverty causes corruption is to over simplify the issue. I am not denying that poverty is a cause of corruption, but it is defnitly not the only cause.
First I agree with Oz, that this is a circle, a bad loop, much poverty caused by corruption, that causes much poverty, a snowball effect as the problem just gets worse.
Second there are other causes for corruption, as I have mentioned before. This is clear out of the great number of high level corruption, which is not rooted in poverty.
It is important if corruption is to be rooted out, that all the causes be identified, as focussing on one cause, poverty, will limit the response to the problem, and therefor limit the success.
AH
__________________
“The subject no longer has to be mentioned by name. Someone is sick. Someone else is feeling better now. A friend has just gone back into the hospital. Another has died. The unspoken name, of course, is AIDS.”
“From the point of view of the pharmaceutical industry, the AIDS problem has already been solved. After all, we already have a drug which can be sold at the incredible price of $8, 000 an annual dose, and which has the added virtue of not diminishing the market by actually curing anyone.”
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06-04-2007, 02:22 AM
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Viscount
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Join Date: Oct 2006
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__________________
“The subject no longer has to be mentioned by name. Someone is sick. Someone else is feeling better now. A friend has just gone back into the hospital. Another has died. The unspoken name, of course, is AIDS.”
“From the point of view of the pharmaceutical industry, the AIDS problem has already been solved. After all, we already have a drug which can be sold at the incredible price of $8, 000 an annual dose, and which has the added virtue of not diminishing the market by actually curing anyone.”
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06-05-2007, 12:26 PM
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Conscript
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Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 17
Location: Nigeria & Brazil (Manaos, Amazonas State)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by W.E.B. Du Bois
@ Abraxas, Will reply to your comment once I have done a bit more reading on Nigeria (which should be by tomorrow). 
WEB
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Hi, W.E.B. Du Bois!
I am still waiting.
Don't forget: POVERTY BEGETS CRIMINALITY AND CORRUPTION. Tackle poverty first, and corruption will take care of itself. Remember, NOT every country can be said to experience poverty. However, ALL nations on planet Earth, including the usual holier-than-thou group of insatiably voracious economic Shylocks (i.e. members of the G8, like the US of A, the UK, Germany, France, Japan, Canada, et al) have all manner of corruption taking place inside of them, all the time.
{.... I'll be back.....Don't go away!}
Obrigado.
Don Juan-Carlos ABRAXAS (III)
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06-05-2007, 12:33 PM
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Viscount
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Sorry, can you clarify something for me? First you say that pverty is the root cause of orruptiion, and then you go ahead saying that the richest nations also has corruption. Does this not then proof that poverty is not the only reason for corruption?
AH
__________________
“The subject no longer has to be mentioned by name. Someone is sick. Someone else is feeling better now. A friend has just gone back into the hospital. Another has died. The unspoken name, of course, is AIDS.”
“From the point of view of the pharmaceutical industry, the AIDS problem has already been solved. After all, we already have a drug which can be sold at the incredible price of $8, 000 an annual dose, and which has the added virtue of not diminishing the market by actually curing anyone.”
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06-05-2007, 04:02 PM
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Moderator
McCain lied about Clark, don't run from lies
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@ Abraxas, Did you see my responses on the Nigeria forum? I have been doing a lot of background reading on Nigeria. I read all the articles in that Legacy of Obsuanjo site, and I'm still reading a few Economist articles on Nigeria. Should have a reply later by today. 
WEB
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06-05-2007, 09:57 PM
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Conscript
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Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 17
Location: Nigeria & Brazil (Manaos, Amazonas State)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by africanhope
Sorry, can you clarify something for me? First you say that pverty is the root cause of orruptiion, and then you go ahead saying that the richest nations also has corruption. Does this not then proof that poverty is not the only reason for corruption?
AH
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Hi, folks!
Please, get me right: The question was posed for us to deliberate as follows: "How would you tackle the problem of poverty in Nigeria if you were the new president of the Federal Republic of Nigeria?"
As far as I am concerned, the topic is solution-seeking, and predicated on tangible practical solutions that should be of measurable benefit to over 140 million earth beings worldwide, called Nigerians, who have been through sustained brutalization of their psyche, and blatant exploitation of their resources, for close to 450 uninterrupted years by internal and external exploiters, oppressors, and ravagers alike. Any workable solution to the pervasive poverty that is in Nigeria today, will therefore be most welcome.
In other words, the theme of our deliberation is not trivial, and should not be trivialized.
If I was given the responsibility to prioritize between eradicating poverty and eradicating corruption in Nigeria today, I would focus my energies into eradicating POVERTY first, then I can fine-tune my efforts at also eradicating, or minimizing corruption. (Not the other way round!)
POVERTY should be avoided at all costs. It should not be tolerated. POVERTY dehumanizes. It is #1 priority for summary eradication in any civilized society on earth today. Corruption can always be handled effectively by the law and order enforcement institutions in place.
In other words, it is the rule of law that can efficiently handle individual cases of corruption as they emerge. It is the failure of the establishment and robust implementation of the rule of law in Nigeria that has produced such a sorry state of generalized corruption in that country, NOT the intrinsic nature of the people who happen to be inside of that territory called Nigeria to be corrupt, as some are almost, by innuendo, trying to hint, even if subliminally.
{.....Don't go away! ..... I'll be back!}
Obrigado, and cheers!
Don Juan-Carlos ABRAXAS (III)
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06-06-2007, 01:59 AM
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Viscount
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And I would tackle both issues at once, as corruption is also a cause of corruption. And as long as corruption is rampant, al projects to aleviate poverty will be under threat, as much of themoney used for it will be lost through corruption.
The one can not be fixed without the other being handled at the same time.
The problem of leaving corruption to law and order instutions to fix is the fact that this ignores the problem of corruption with in law and order.
Special anti-corruption tasksfoces are necesary, who will be under close watch, to tackle thi problem. But more than anything else, the political will, by the president, but also lower down by all elected officials will be needed if this problem is to be fixed
AH
__________________
“The subject no longer has to be mentioned by name. Someone is sick. Someone else is feeling better now. A friend has just gone back into the hospital. Another has died. The unspoken name, of course, is AIDS.”
“From the point of view of the pharmaceutical industry, the AIDS problem has already been solved. After all, we already have a drug which can be sold at the incredible price of $8, 000 an annual dose, and which has the added virtue of not diminishing the market by actually curing anyone.”
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06-06-2007, 03:03 AM
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Moderator
McCain lied about Clark, don't run from lies
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Join Date: Oct 2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Abraxas
NOT the intrinsic nature of the people who happen to be inside of that territory called Nigeria to be corrupt, as some are almost, by innuendo, trying to hint, even if subliminally.
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Who is hinting subliminally that Nigerians are inherently corrupt?
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06-06-2007, 03:14 AM
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Moderator
McCain lied about Clark, don't run from lies
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@ Abraxis,
In response to your program for fighting poverty, I have recently read two very different accounts of the Obasanjo tenure for the past 8 years. One that just makes him out to be a buffoon and a tyrant (what you seem to agree with) : http://www.guardiannewsngr.com/edito...ticle02/190407
I also read a very glowing praise of Obusanjo's economic reforms: The NESG®:: News | Press Release
In my opinion, I think that overall, Obusanjo did a good job on fixing the longterm problems of Nigeria's economy, but he failed to address short term political problems caused by poverty. Obusanjo helped by basically stopping the Nigerian fiscal and monetary situation from getting worse and actually making it a lot better. However, talking about good fiscal and monetary policy is not going to be a lot of enoucragement to the tens of millions of Nigerians who are unemployed. I think that Nigeria was REALLY in bad shape when Obusanjo took over from Abubakar. It's like taking over a car that has four flats, an oil leak and transmission problems and engine problems. Obusanjo stopped it from getting worse and built a foundation for it to improve.
I am finding myself very close to the "Washington Consensus" which is a neoliberal (in the economic sense of the word) policy. The state of the Nigerian economy just seemed so bad, that I think his radical neo-liberalism (from what I can tell) was required.
So, if anything I would only say that the government should spend some money to help fight poverty through poverty reduction programs (only to maintain political stability) but concentrate its efforts on infrastructure and solving the Niger Delta crisis. This is not an original proposal at all, as it is what the current President Yar'Adua seems to be most interested in.
WEB
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