How Will New Nigerian Pres Deal With Poverty? - Page 2 - Political Forum

Brother Oz · 06-01-2007, 07:01 AM

Quote:

In other words, we are now confronted with a "chicken-and-egg" dilemma: Does poverty cause corruption, or is it corruption that causes poverty?

Both are true, to an extent, it's a cycle.
But I was just saying what stood in the way of foreign investment, corruption is not the sole reason for poverty in Nigeria, there are a whole range of reasons. It is a significant however.

Abraxas · 06-02-2007, 08:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by africanhope

Although I agree that poverty is a cuase for corruption on lower levels (forinstance, with the pay our traffic police gets, you can sometimes understand that the temptation to take bribes exist). Yet poverty is not a sole explaination, as corruption occurs on very high levels aswell. Our highest was our DEputy President who was fired for corruption 2 years ago, and his facing criminal charges on hit. He was very highly payed, and could not use poverty as an excuse.

AH

Hi, Africanhope!

I still believe that, between POVERTY and CORRUPTION, poverty is the cause of corruption. In other words, for me, POVERTY precedes CORRUPTION!

Case Example:

On the balance of probability, in Nigeria, as in most underdeveloped countries worldwide, the prevailing status quo are from relatively "humble" backgrounds: i.e. they were born into poverty, in some cases, abject poverty! (e.g. Generals Ibrahim Babangida, Sani Abacha, Abdulsalami Abubakar, and Obasanjo, stinking rich as they are today, actually came from very poor families, and were, as a matter of fact, compelled by poverty to join a colonial army, that deliberately focused its recruitment base within poor Nigerians, who could easier subordinate their egos to the colonial administrators, since they were better controllable than children of relatively well-off Nigerians.)

The fact that they, later on in life, succeeded to become POLITICIANS, not producers of wealth, presiding over the allocation of (scarce) available resources (e.g. petroleum, copper, chromium, diamonds, cobalt, uranium, coltan, agricultural, infrastructural, etc), and government patronage, does not necessarily wipe out the memory of the excruciating poverty that they lived through, earlier in their lives.

The psychological scar of poverty translates into understandable displays of benign inferiority complex subsequently, the predictable expression of which include their compulsive acquisition of material property, maintaining ultra-fat Swiss, Bahamian, or/and Isle of Man-based bank accounts, fleets of flashy cars, private jets , etc. In other words, it is the ORIGINAL POVERTY in them, despite their seeming "new rich" airs, that makes them CORRUPT. I hope you get a feel for what I am talking about.

Please, as background reading, refer to the following to provide you some context about my thinking:

(1) Nigeria: The Human Development Index - going beyond income.

(2) Transparency International 2006 Corruption Perception Index (CPI) Table.

Post Script:

On a hypothetical scale of 0~100:

(a) If corruption is zero, and poverty is 100, then you have an ideal monastic community in your hands.

(b) If corruption is 100, and poverty is 0, you have a mafia enclave in your hands.

(c) If corruption is 100, and poverty is 100, you have a failed state in your hands.

(d) If corruption is zero, and poverty is zero, you have utopia in your hands.

Cheerio! (I'll be back ....soon)!

Don-Juan Carlos ABRAXAS (III)

Che Guevara · 06-02-2007, 11:06 AM

As far as I know in Nigeria things are good as long as there is no general on place of president. This country is independent since earls sixties, and till 1999. only four years they spent in democracy.

Old Obasanjo and new Yaradua are from same party, and BBC (in time of elections) report there were huge frauds, sabotage of voting places in cities where oposition has majority..

Their party has probably support of America, because of oil rich Delta Niger.. And where is oil, there is coruption...

I listen one documentary on some online radio, probably BBC, where they say that last president Obasanjo, killed his oponents and enemies, under excuse they were corupted..

Nigeria is over-populated country, and without control of central goverement over big part of Nigeria... Revolution is just waiting to happend, and with all that oil, revolutioners could be easily financed by great oil companies, that ain't got control there..

CHUQ · 06-02-2007, 04:31 PM

OK, poverty and corruption is rampant in the country, but will the new pres be capable of moving Nigeria forward or will he find the massive amounts of money because of oil irresistable?

Brother Oz · 06-02-2007, 04:33 PM

No way to know. But the main problem with the new President is in terms of his politics.

vladward8 · 06-02-2007, 10:17 PM

The Chinese have very effective cures for corruption.

Sebelius for VP, not Hillary · 06-02-2007, 10:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vladward8

The Chinese have very effective cures for corruption.

I don't agree with that. Corruption in China is still rampant, and that is why China had several hundred or several thousand (can't remember which) riots in the countryside every year. Chinese corruption is ubiquitous in China. China just has showcase executions to make it seem like they are fighting corruption.

WEB

Sebelius for VP, not Hillary · 06-02-2007, 10:45 PM

@ Abraxas, Will reply to your comment once I have done a bit more reading on Nigeria (which should be by tomorrow).

WEB

CHUQ · 06-03-2007, 05:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brother Oz

No way to know. But the main problem with the new President is in terms of his politics.

Since I am about a 1000 yrs old I have seen a bunch of African stuff. Many come to power whether peacefully or by force, as liberators and after a bit of time they becomne oppressors. Just a thought.

africanhope · 06-03-2007, 05:37 AM

If China has such wonderfull solutions to corruption, why are they quite keen to support corrupt governments in Africa?

AH