Africans are deceived by western countries and they are still not waking up. All those western values and western principles are only good if you are as rich as western countries. Africans have to discover their own ways to develop their societies, not just to follow western ways.

I don't agree. China helps African countries with their infrastructure. We build railways, dams, highways, airports, schools and hospitals. Sudan economy growth reaches 9.5% in 2006. Angola grows by 14%. We have just offered lots of money to Sudan to improve Darfur situations.

Of course it would have helped Darfur more if you'd stopped giving them money until they stopped murdering blacks, like we did.

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... I am surprised at your insolence in writing to me at all. You know, as I know, that I bought this constituency... may God's curse light upon you and may it make your women as open and as free to the excise officers as your wives and daughters have always been to me while I have represented your scoundrel corporation.
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The price of oil does fluctuate......between profitable and EXTREMELY profitable. No risk.

Can you show me anyone who ever lost money pumping oil from a known deposit of oil?

Shielding uncompetitive businesses, where one has no comparative advantage, shields the entire economy from collapsing. Once the domestic industries are wiped out by competition, not only are the jobs gone, and the economy destroyed, but the future is wrecked as well. How can there be any progress after all those businesses are gone?

I grant you that protectionism keeps prices up, but if you don't have a job (under free trade between China and Africa) to pay for goods, I guess it doesn't matter too much what the prices is. WRT innovation, with a countries businesses wiped out (under free trade) how would they innovate?


Some good African companies may prosper, but many will also go under as well. The upside you present is infrastructure. Chinan is only building as much infraastructure as it will take to get the resources out of the bowels of the earth and into a ship bound for China. This will be insufficient to provide the jobs that are destroyed from free trade. Whatever education is gained can't replace the education provided by the indigenous jobs that will be lost to free trade.

Africa has a better shot at modernization without free trade with China than with it. China and Africa are not countries with different comparative advantage, so their economies don't complement each other as a developed and underdeveloped country do. Both countries are labor abundant, but China has superior infrastructure and organization so they are a competitor (not a partner) with Africa in anything but natural resources.

Africa has problems, but they are not solved by trading with China. Africa needs to get its government together, which will allow them to provide their own infrastructure. They can engage in some trade, but they should not allow their economies to be flooded with Chinese goods that they have no chance of competing with.

I'm listening. Haven't heard anything about Africa being strong in food production, but I'm listening if you have something to say about that.

I don't agree. China is large enough that they will be more like the US than Japan. China is large enough that they have a sizeable internal market that they can concern themselves with supplying. Japan always had to worry about getting into other markets, which lead them to make bad loans to exporters and subsequently crashed their economy, since many loans turned out to be no good.

Not an expert on Japanese economics, but that's how I understood it.

MFN status is required for all countries that the US trades with under the WTO, I believed. I'm not sure, but I believe that any country the US trades with under the WTO are all under MFN status.

That could hurt a small investor, but with nowadays technology, I don't think they make those kinds of errors.

How has Chinese money improved Darfur's situation? You mean how China says "have a palace, President of Darfur, just call off the janjaweed on those blacks?" That's good, I guess. However, if China does this kind of thing for every despot in Africa, then guess what? Now all those African despots have an independent source of income and they can use that to hire troops to reinforce their corrupt regimes.

EHy. Sorry I did not take part in this debate, I was away a bit.


1. Africa is not benefiting from Chinese interference and entry. I can cite many examples for this. Last year, the SA government finally decided to curb the dumbing of very cheap Chinese clothes, since our own manufacturing industry almost went bankrupt with in a year - we can not compete in pirces since labour so so damned cheap in China.
2. China helps evil and bad governments stay in place. How is this good.
3. Someone said we complain to much, and something about us not being able to get our own recources, so needing help? Rubish! SA sends engineers toi Eurpe, Russia, Aus and the US to advise on getting recources fromeep in the earth. WE are alos getting loads of money from selling our technoogy for making oetroleum from coal. We can look after this ourselves, thank you very much.
4. WEB, Africa's strongest industry is argicultrue, which is why Africa fights for free trade, with subsidies in place, we can't compte against US and EU farmers. SA for instance is one of very few countries in the world who is a netexporter of foodstuffs


Sorry, have to run again, will try to say more clearly what I think later

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I knew I was right.

Thanks for the info on South African agriculture. Do you think many African countries have THE POTENTIAL to be net exporters of food (crops and meat)?

Just a piece about a looming downside of Chian in Africa.

PRETORIA, South Africa - Chinese President
Hu Jintao is in Africa bearing the usual gifts of money for soccer stadiums and interest-free loans. But he also has brought a new recognition of the downside of China's aggressive quest for the continent's resources.

These include tensions over mounting trade imbalances, the practices of some Chinese investors and the risks of doing business with rogue states.

Unmentioned, as Beijing adds luster to Africa's renewed status as a strategic ally, is the possibility of a dispute with the United States as the two vie for resources and influence on the continent. Another source of possible conflict is China's arms sales to countries accused of human rights violations.

China acknowledges downside in Africa - Yahoo! News

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What you did is purely punitive and negative. What we are doing is positive and constructive. You are just too stingy and angry to give the money, knowing that you cannot control Sudan for oil.