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05-01-2008, 12:40 AM
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Governor General
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Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 737
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Quote:
Originally Posted by africanhope
Non-interference? Did you actually say that china's policy is one of non-interference? REally? Giving andselling weapons to Robert Mugabe's now illegal government in Zimbabwe is thus, according to you, not interfering in a country's internal affairs?
AH
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They have to pay for them. We don't give free lunch.
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05-01-2008, 12:45 AM
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Governor General
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Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 737
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Quote:
Originally Posted by janpor
This is the biggest crap I heard about this subject.
The Chinese motto in Africa is: don't ask questions as long we get natural resources. They don't ask standars like f.e. transparancy.
So the Chinese built infrastructure projects in Sudan, but if Sudan sells oil it earns money...on wich do you think they are spending it...do you know where Darfur is located?!
Do you think the common Sudanese people have become wealthier because of the Chinese intervention? They absolutly didn't!
If China (it are state companies) builds project like this they also bring their own (Chinese) workers! So don't adress the local population, that is left unemployed.
As you know China is mostly an export orientated country, a lot of African products (clothing, shoes,are more expensive than Chinese products, what hurted local businesses a lot.
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We don't know any of Sudan's culture, history, language and social psychology, so we remain modest and stay out of commenting any political agendas inside their own government. Arrogant westerners love to decide what is good for others according to their own standards, which we never do. If Sudan government wants to do the business, we will do it, as long as it satisfy all legal requirements. If Antigovernment institutes want to do the business, we will do it as well, as long as it satisfy all legal requirements.
If African exports are more expensive than Chinese exports, they either have better quality, or they have to think themselves on how to reduce the costs. We don't force them to do anything, and we don't dictate them to do anything. We always trust the African countries' own decisions. We don't care about European countries' decisions for African countries, either.
Last edited by Luke : 05-01-2008 at 12:49 AM.
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05-01-2008, 02:36 AM
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Viscount
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Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,490
Location: Potchefstroom, South Africa
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1 st of all,payingfor them or not, it remains interference.
2nd, I am truly wondering what they used to pay for them? there is almost no forgeing valuta in Zim, the economy is gone, the exchange rates are soething horrible, zim can not even pay forthe electricity Sa gives to them, so what did they use to pay for those guns? And the chinese soldiers who are in zim, are they payngfor them too?
AH
__________________
“The subject no longer has to be mentioned by name. Someone is sick. Someone else is feeling better now. A friend has just gone back into the hospital. Another has died. The unspoken name, of course, is AIDS.”
“From the point of view of the pharmaceutical industry, the AIDS problem has already been solved. After all, we already have a drug which can be sold at the incredible price of $8, 000 an annual dose, and which has the added virtue of not diminishing the market by actually curing anyone.”
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05-02-2008, 11:18 AM
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Banned
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Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 495
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Luke
We don't know any of Sudan's culture, history, language and social psychology, so we remain modest and stay out of commenting any political agendas inside their own government. Arrogant westerners love to decide what is good for others according to their own standards, which we never do. If Sudan government wants to do the business, we will do it, as long as it satisfy all legal requirements. If Antigovernment institutes want to do the business, we will do it as well, as long as it satisfy all legal requirements.
If African exports are more expensive than Chinese exports, they either have better quality, or they have to think themselves on how to reduce the costs. We don't force them to do anything, and we don't dictate them to do anything. We always trust the African countries' own decisions. We don't care about European countries' decisions for African countries, either.
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This attitude is exactly th attitude American Corporations get so much crap for in areas like these. You just keep on doing this stuff, if you think international opinion doesn't mean anything well I think you and China are in for a pretty big surprise.
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06-01-2008, 06:20 AM
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Mercenary
Silent Lamb
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Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 319
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Quote:
Originally Posted by africanhope
Non-interference? Did you actually say that china's policy is one of non-interference? REally? Giving andselling weapons to Robert Mugabe's now illegal government in Zimbabwe is thus, according to you, not interfering in a country's internal affairs?
AH
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whether the gov is legal or illegal is not up to you, and only criticising China on selling of weapons is unjustic and unreasonable, trading of weapons is also a ordinary part of international trade, if you think trade is a kind of interference, so now every country in the world is interfering others, and China is also not the largest exporter of weapons in the world, the largest one is the alleged most democratic and most concerning human rights country!
China's aid to African countries mostly has no political preconditions, we never ask other countries that if you want to do business with us, please do that first and then please do this..., we never ask them to use the same system as we do, people in Africa have their rights to choose the system suitable for their countries. when making friends, the first thing is to respect others' choices. I think most people China sent to Africa are doctors and builders not troops with weapons. If there were humanitirian crisis, UN should take actions not one single country like the famous world police!
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借我三千虎贲,复我浩荡中华! 汉旗指处,望尘逃遁!敢犯我中华天威者,虽远必诛!
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06-01-2008, 07:46 AM
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Viscount
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Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,490
Location: Potchefstroom, South Africa
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It isn't up to me, you are right, it is up to the people of Zim, who voted for some one else, and he is still in power, I would say that is ilegal, wouldn't you??
And you say you support that Afrians choose their own government? So do I. Unfortunatly china has no problem dealingwith countries where the government does not allow the people to choose their own government.
thus, what china supports is for people in power to decided how long they want to stay in power.
AH
__________________
“The subject no longer has to be mentioned by name. Someone is sick. Someone else is feeling better now. A friend has just gone back into the hospital. Another has died. The unspoken name, of course, is AIDS.”
“From the point of view of the pharmaceutical industry, the AIDS problem has already been solved. After all, we already have a drug which can be sold at the incredible price of $8, 000 an annual dose, and which has the added virtue of not diminishing the market by actually curing anyone.”
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06-01-2008, 07:52 AM
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Viceroy
Sophist
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Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,083
Location: Wales
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Quote:
My question is how could the United States not offer such a deal with the Democrtic Republic of the Congo, years ago?.There are so many vital minerals
in the Congo.Coaltal,used in Cellular Phones and Computers ,and many electronic deveices.Copper,they have some of the largest copper deposits in the World.Diamonds, gold,many areas have had just the surface scratched in terms
of what has been extracted with regards to diamonds and Gold.Also there is Cobalt,and many other exotic minerals.What happened to the Europeans,and Americans, in this major deal?.
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Because it was easier for the Europeans and Americans to overthrow the democratic leader of the Congo and pay a dictator to give them the mining rights, which worked fine for them until the Congo war... when they just bought the minerals off all the rebel and foreign army groups who controlled different mines.
This deal is good for the Congo. But that doesn't mean that China's actions in Africa are responsible. China supplies African leaders with things depending on what they want. Sometimes these are good things, like hospitals. Sometimes these are weapons to shoot civilians with. China doesn't care, they just want to get in good with whoever has the power.
__________________
... I am surprised at your insolence in writing to me at all. You know, as I know, that I bought this constituency... may God's curse light upon you and may it make your women as open and as free to the excise officers as your wives and daughters have always been to me while I have represented your scoundrel corporation.
I have the honour to be... your obliged humble servant, Anthony Henley
- MPs reply to constituent, mid 1700s
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06-01-2008, 10:26 AM
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Banned
100 % Infidel
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Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 333
Location: Sasebo Japan (originally from Seattle,Wa)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by africanhope
Non-interference? Did you actually say that china's policy is one of non-interference? REally? Giving andselling weapons to Robert Mugabe's now illegal government in Zimbabwe is thus, according to you, not interfering in a country's internal affairs?
AH
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You can't really expect the "People's Republic" of China to actually care about huaman rights now can you? nahh. EVERYTHING THE PRC does seems to be an attack on democracy and human rights, I am not even suprised at this point.
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06-01-2008, 04:03 PM
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Squire
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Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 111
Location: Exeter South England
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First of all dont get me wrong im completely against whats going on in Zimbabwe etc. but China is not interfering in other countries affairs through trade atleast thats not the definition. INterfering in other countries can first be seen as such if there are sanctions forcing them to economicly change their policy.
What China is doing is just international trade of weapons its not ilegal its not interfering. Now if thats the "right" thing to do is another question, but because China is an amoral country it doesnt realy care.
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06-01-2008, 09:09 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 495
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ETF
What China is doing is just international trade of weapons its not ilegal its not interfering. Now if thats the "right" thing to do is another question, but because China is an amoral country it doesnt realy care.
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American Corporations are amoral in the same way and look at the rap they got acting in the same exact fashion. . .European corporations as well I should probably point out.
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