Here are two related proposals I have in establishing a better democratic South Africa and a coalition of prosperity amongst Southern African communitis. .

First I would like to clarify what I am presenting. I am presenting to you a proposal or idea if you will about a new federal state comprising of South African communities and a confederal order similar to the European Union consisting of Southern African Dominions.



In Dark Green is the idealized dominion of territory to be established as the United States of South Africa. In medium green is the idealized extension of land to be organized as the Union of Southern Africa (A Southern African version of the European Union), a confederal association of common cultural communities for the purpose of mutual economic gain and a coalition of military forces to preserve and secure the lands of Southern Africa from the possible invasions from the North and so forth. In blue is what is commonly identified as a part of Southern Africa, but is actually Southeastern Africa or the Islands of Southeastern Africa. This could become a part of the Southern African Union as a seperate dominion. In Greyish Green, possible extension of the Southern African Union due to the Southern African Communities that may exist in Tanzania and D.R. Congo.



This is my proposal so far of the United States of Africa ought to look like from what is currently present in South Africa. That small blue in the state of Xhosaland is to demonstrate what a special autonomous community would look like. But it is just an example. There probably be many Xhosa and Zulu special communities in the state of Volkstaat.

The country would be a multi-level federal state with 10 states and 2 federal districts.

These states are arranged on languages and not the ethnics that exist in South Africa. From my own studies I have found that the most important, dynamic, and influential characteristic of an ethnic group and of a nation. If you can't speak the same language, then you certainly cannot function as a single nation. The reason for federalism and the success of federalism is to unite seperate nations under a single banner of hope, peace, prosperity, and order. So having each state with its own language is the best way to establish a nation that is already federal in structure.

The structure I will discuss follows my own political ideology, Draneism. Each state is divided into provinces to divide each state by the geographical differences or the sub-ethnic distinctions that make up each state. Take for instance the dialects of Northern Sesetho and Zulu. Each of those distinctive dialects or clans if you will would have its own province.

The provinces would then be divided into counties (Rural Areas) and muncipalities (urban Areas). These are both relative to the current status of districts in that country. The division of counties would depend on which region you would be at. But mainly they would divide into individual tribes (tribal rural areas), villages (non-tribal rural areas), or towns (semi-urban areas, which may be divided into neighborhoods). The municipalities are likely be just divided into city wards like those that exist in the city of Norfolk as the case may be for a decent size city or City Boroughs like those that exist in the city of New York as the case may be for a very large size city with a population over a million. Wards would be divided into single neighborhoods, the smallest unit of administration in an urban center, while Boroughs (which are city size wards) would be divided into communes and communes would be divided into single neighborhoods. Tribes, Villages, Towns, Wards, and Boroughs are different types of localities. Neighborhoods and Communes are different types of sub-localities with one consisting of sub-localities. Currently municipalities are used as a type of locality. That would change as the word, municipality would function as a means to differ urban areas from rural areas.

Some states due to their relatively small size might not consist of any provinces.

The use of divisible administration is viable for any largely populated area as the case maybe, the more people there are, the more administrative divisions there should be.

The distinctiveness of an adminstrative divisions determines the level of autonomy it should have. States should certainly have the highest and neighborhoods should have the lowest, but a neighborhood should still have some sort of autonomy, but most of its functions rely on the town or city it is a part of.

Due to the different African people that would live in say a state like Volkstaat that lets say make up the majority in a particular county or town, you would have that town or county set up as a special administrative and autonomous division in that state of Volkstaat that for those Zulus, Xhosas, Vendas, and ect that may live there. Afrikaans would be the administrative language that would still have to acquire for that state, english (probably and for now) would be the national language that would have to acquire for national acceptance into public universities across the entire nation (private universities like Oprah's may feature a native tongue instead as the administrative language of its campus). So basically everyone would know English and everyone in Volkstaat would know that Dutch language as everyone in each other state would have to acquire learning the language corresponding to its administration. The special autonomy for that community would serve community purposes and administration in that community. Special community organization would exist between the parent state and the communities to insure fair treatment of the citizens and such... Lets say the people of Xhosa in Volkstaat want to excersize their culture and lets say their culture has aspects that isn't quite appealing to everyone else in Volkstaat. Well this autonomy would permit that culture but only in that community and the ties with Xhosaland would insure it. Also I would like to point out that these special organizations would be regulated and administrated by the federal government, which will insure that no apartheidism takes place. Also if a town lets say in Volkstaat became largely Xhosa and lied exactly on the boarder between Xhosaland and Volkstaat, that town could become incorporated as a part of Xhosaland by a single democratic vote taken place in that town.

There will also be federal districts in this system. Two in particular, Capetown and Pretoria. These two districts would be administrated in English and consist of no special communities, but... all cultural aspects are free to be demonstrated regardless of where they are done as long as they don't go against any laws established by the federal government.

No need to worry about apartheidism under my system. Every national law would be written to guarantee absolute racial equality and a most true sense of democracy for every citizen. And ethnicity is based on language, not the white or black nonsense. So no need to worry about those crazy white people, they must follow the law too.

This idea and this mapwas postedhere before, nothing new. Again, I always laugh when people want to create a problem so that there can a be a solution. SA has very little ethnic problems at this moment. So deviding Sa on ethnic grounds is just silly. (and saying it is language, not ethnic lines, is false, since the two are the same thing)

Also, to prove the above, if it is on language grounds, why is there a sesotho and a Setswana region, their languages are identical. And in SA we do speak the same language - every person in this country is fully English speaking. So thhe idea that this is based on language is false.

Also, the people do not want a federation of this type (refering to your first map) in 1910, Lesotho, Botswana and Swaziland and then Rhodesia refused to join the new union of South Africa. NAm in 1989 refused to stay part of SA, but rather became independent. And SA, with it's releivly strong econmy, would not want to join with LEsotho, Swaziland and Zimbabwe, al 3 of which are part of the poorest countries in the world list.

I am all for a Federate system in SA, but nased on our current provinces, and not on language or ethnical grounds.

Lastly, a Volkstaat? Really? What aboutthe indiginous peoples of that region (which is so damned arrid). They outnumber the Afrikaners in that area, so why should this then be an Afikaner area. This map was first put forward by Pieter Mulder in the late 90's. He is the leader of the far right wing nationalist Afirkaner party, the FF+. That is the reasoning behind this idea.

AH

__________________
After climbing a great hill, one only finds that there are many more hills to climb.
For to be free is not merely to cast off one's chains, but to live in a way that respects and enhances the freedom of others.
I detest racialism, because I regard it as a barbaric thing, whether it comes from a black man or a white man. - Nelson Mandela

I can see that you are in ridicule mode. Not only is everything you've said false, not only did you skip parts I have said, but it hurts me to see you so eager to ridicule and destroy what little bit of humanity you have.

Let me reiterate:

this in dark green,

not this

is what I'm talking about in what the United States of South Africa would look like.

But let me now ignore you, because I know until you end being in your ridicule mode, you cannot manage being in peaceful minded, open discussion about this idea. Let me reiterate that... until you can stop ridiculing me, you cannot manage discussing this subject with me. So I am going to ignore you. If you start getting interested in actually discussing about something, then please tell a fellow member of this forum and hopefully he or she will comply informing me so I can lift this ignore I'll have on you. And let me inform you that I am not doing this for any particular childish nor arrogant reason (though you may call it that if your opinion best suits it), I am doing this so I can move on with this discussion and not become sidetracked into something unrelated or perhaps get tangled up into a flame war. I am doing this to benefit you, not to insult you.


Alrighty, now let me go back into this discussion of mine that I saw slightly side-tracked off.

Botswana

Given that Botswana is mostly Tswana ethnic people, it would best serve being annexed as a part of Tswanaland. Not only would the Tswana people of Botswana benefit from the economic prosperity of South Africa, but also from the better ethnic conditions that exist in South Africa as mentioned by Hope. As for the people of South Africa. They would be able to gain more land and the state of Tswanaland will surely become five or six times larger than it already is.

Ethnologue report for Botswana


Special Autonomous Communities would be made in Botswana for the following minorities:

6,000 Afrikaans
1,000 Ani
15,000 Birwa
2,000 Gana
2,000 Gciriku
2,500 Gwi
20,000 Herero
200 Hua
150,000 Kalanga
40,000 Kgalagadi
4,000 Khwe
817 Kua
12,000 Kuhane
20,000 Mbukushu
15,000 Nambya
10,000 Naro
8,000 Ndebele
6,000 Shua
5,000 Tsoa
2,000 Tswapong
20,000 Yeyi
11,000 Zezuru

And any other minority there.


Lesotho

Will be reincorporated as part of Sesetholand with any part of the Xhosa and Zulu communities neighbouring their respected states to be incorporated into their domain. Special autonomous areas would be designated for the Phuthi and the Xhosa and Zulu communities that doesn't neighbour their respected states.


Swaziland

Will be reincorporated as apart of Swatiland. Any Tsonga and Zulu communities that neighbor their respected states will be reincorporated into those states.


Namibia



Given that the illogical situation. This will pretty much establish one single state with each language mentioned above as a province and land bridge of that open sparcely inhabited region to unite the Afrikaans regions of South Africa and Namibia together and the Tswana region together with Tswanaland. The communities of Khoisan language groups from the newer and more larger Tswana which has incorporated Botswana will become incorporated as part of Namibia. Namibia will pretty much become the designated federalize state of the Khoisan and Bantu people.

i did not mean to ridicule, andwould like to know exactly what in my post you interperted in that way. Also, saying 'all you say is false' with out saying what specifaccaly, and without proof is also not quitea good way to debate, is it? So, again, please tell me which facts are false? Is it false when I said Namibiachose not to remain part of SA in 1989? Is it false when I said the Sesotho language and and the Setswana language (which I canspeak) is the same?


Disagreeing is not riduculing, and attacking my humanity is an insult, and will not be tolerated. I disagree with your plans. I gave you reasons why I disagree. I gave you reasons why South Africans will not settle for a greater union at this stage, and proof that people form other African countries probably would not either. I lived in Namibia for a while, and did not hear one NAmibian express the wish for the two countries to be joined. Again, this is not redicule, this is disagreeing with you.

AH

__________________
After climbing a great hill, one only finds that there are many more hills to climb.
For to be free is not merely to cast off one's chains, but to live in a way that respects and enhances the freedom of others.
I detest racialism, because I regard it as a barbaric thing, whether it comes from a black man or a white man. - Nelson Mandela

Read.

__________________
I am the Dalai Lama.

http://www.politicsforumpoliticalwor...tml#post166143

Funny

__________________
After climbing a great hill, one only finds that there are many more hills to climb.
For to be free is not merely to cast off one's chains, but to live in a way that respects and enhances the freedom of others.
I detest racialism, because I regard it as a barbaric thing, whether it comes from a black man or a white man. - Nelson Mandela

I guess you are not interested in actually participating in this discussion.

__________________
I am the Dalai Lama.

http://www.politicsforumpoliticalwor...tml#post166143

I tried to, you do not want to answer any of my questions. So it is not possible for me to participate. I try to have a civil discusion, and you insult me back, with our refering to anything I have written or asked. So there is no discussion here. So just put me back on ignore, and we can all go our merry way.

AH

__________________
After climbing a great hill, one only finds that there are many more hills to climb.
For to be free is not merely to cast off one's chains, but to live in a way that respects and enhances the freedom of others.
I detest racialism, because I regard it as a barbaric thing, whether it comes from a black man or a white man. - Nelson Mandela