africanhope

Apology accepted Shirty, no prop.

Now, about your post, some of it is true. some not. Yes, crime is a huge problem, but the media tends to focuss on the black on white crime, and the white on black crime, and ignore the huge amount of white on white and black on black crime. In SA we should not make this a racial issue, but focuss on crime, all crime, and bring it down.

Youalso mention forgeign investment bringing poverty down. We've had our highest growth rate in history,with huge HUGE amounts of forgeign investment, people getting very rich, and nothing comming down to the poor, so that has already happend, but with no results.

People also alway ignore the fact that that White South Africans are now considerably richer that they were during apartheid, and have a lot more rights than before.

One last thing is also that for decades, blacks were not allowed to do certain jobs, now the whites complain because the same isbeing done to them?

I agree the current way our government implements AA is wrong, but some sort of AA is necesary to try and fix the problems of the past, would you not agree? Also, not all whites leaving the country to work overseas does so because they lost their jobs, many go because they do not want to live under a black government or work for a black boss. One should not oversimplify the whole issue.

SA has problems, yes. Some of them are very serious indeed, defnitly. Our government is, bad is maybe not a strong enough word, no doubt. But it is not always as bad as forgeign media (and our own) often try and make it out.

That having been said, Iam working on a thread, maybe later today I'll post it, about some worries I do have about SA.

AH

__________________
“The subject no longer has to be mentioned by name. Someone is sick. Someone else is feeling better now. A friend has just gone back into the hospital. Another has died. The unspoken name, of course, is AIDS.”
“From the point of view of the pharmaceutical industry, the AIDS problem has already been solved. After all, we already have a drug which can be sold at the incredible price of $8, 000 an annual dose, and which has the added virtue of not diminishing the market by actually curing anyone.”

Herby

I live in SA,the typical hate that comes from people like hypnox grows into bigger things, like viscios attacks,muder,rape and so on.
The rallys that the more agressive parties like the ANC and PAC have where they chant slogans like [one settler one bullet] or like our next president stands outside the court house with his bus loads of supporters which say Zuma is innocent, Zuma and his cronies chant give me my machine gun and lets chase these settlers from our shores, are some of the reasons why so many whites are leaving our country,the fact that children are raped because whitch doctors tell the people that if they rape babies it will cure their aids,or because as much as you try to soften the reality of what it means to live in this country,black on black and black on white crime is definately much more prevelant,no matter how non racial you try to make the statement.AA and BBBEE are the new names for appartheid and are the reasons that there are more starving street people than ever before.When you take away a persons right to get a job to feed his family and the world stands by and watches is as bad as slavery,what David livingstone called the open wound of the world,
Whites are richer and have more rights,what utter rubish,take a drive into the cities at night when the workers go home and see how many people come out with their plastic bags to sleep on the pavements.The pavements are littered with black and white street people
There are many whith SA people that would work for black bosses if they could get jobs,so that was also rubbish.
Lastly if you have lived here and see how our country is unfolding or falling appart,education,electricity,Zuma and his financial investor stealing billions,govt ignoring all crime,people getting raped and hiv in prision even if locked up over night,racisim getting worse,inparty fighting within the ANC[tribal]
Cant blame the people for leaving

Herby

I live in SA,the typical hate that comes from people like hypnox grows into bigger things, like viscios attacks,muder,rape and so on.
The rallys that the more agressive parties like the ANC and PAC have where they chant slogans like [one settler one bullet] or like our next president stands outside the court house with his bus loads of supporters which say Zuma is innocent, Zuma and his cronies chant give me my machine gun and lets chase these settlers from our shores, are some of the reasons why so many whites are leaving our country,the fact that children are raped because whitch doctors tell the people that if they rape babies it will cure their aids,or because as much as you try to soften the reality of what it means to live in this country,black on black and black on white crime is definately much more prevelant,no matter how non racial you try to make the statement.AA and BBBEE are the new names for appartheid and are the reasons that there are more starving street people than ever before.When you take away a persons right to get a job to feed his family and the world stands by and watches is as bad as slavery,what David livingstone called the open wound of the world,
Whites are richer and have more rights,what utter rubish,take a drive into the cities at night when the workers go home and see how many people come out with their plastic bags to sleep on the pavements.The pavements are littered with black and white street people
There are many whith SA people that would work for black bosses if they could get jobs,so that was also rubbish.
Lastly if you have lived here and see how our country is unfolding or falling appart,education,electricity,Zuma and his financial investor stealing billions,govt ignoring all crime,people getting raped and hiv in prision even if locked up over night,racisim getting worse,inparty fighting within the ANC[tribal]
Cant blame the people for leaving

superdude17*

it sounds like you think SA is heading towards civil war? is that what the thread will be based on?

africanhope

that thread has been posted long ago, and you commented on it, and no, I defnily do ot think that SA is heading towards a civil war. How do you dedice that out of what I said above?

AH

__________________
“The subject no longer has to be mentioned by name. Someone is sick. Someone else is feeling better now. A friend has just gone back into the hospital. Another has died. The unspoken name, of course, is AIDS.”
“From the point of view of the pharmaceutical industry, the AIDS problem has already been solved. After all, we already have a drug which can be sold at the incredible price of $8, 000 an annual dose, and which has the added virtue of not diminishing the market by actually curing anyone.”

Parisyann

Hi, African Hope! Nice to meet you again.

I've spent 3 weeks visiting your country during the Summer of 2001, mostly in Pretoria & Durban. It is a beautiful country. It reminded me of some of the USA, but in an African landscape. Sunsets, so nice. The only thing I wasn't happy about was the hatred in the streets. I must admit I've never seen as much racism between blacks & whites as in South Africa. I could feel people were just waiting for an opportunity to seek revenge. One really needs to be very carefull when he/she crosses a street. I almsot died that way, and I almsot saw a black guy being ran over, too. I felt safer when learning how to surf in Durban among sharks, than when crossing streets in Pretoria. No kidding! I believe your country needs more time to heal from its past. I look forward to visiting again some other time. I much loved the huge birds in Pretoria with long necks & beaks who flew in such a funny way. Do you have any idea how they're called by the way? Regards.

__________________
History is a nightmare from which I am trying to awake - Ulysses, James Joyce.

africanhope

It is quite strange what you are saying, as I have never experienced it, except the being killed on the roads bit, butthat is not a race thing, we have some of the worst drivers in the world.

I lived in France for a bit, and many of my friends from there have visited me here, and none of them mentioned anything like this, but i will ask them again.

The birds are called Hadidas, and are the most iretating bird in the world!!

(Or maybe you are refering to a Kiewiet, what was the colour of the bird). We would love to have you back here, just choose a better city than Pretoria to visit next time!!

AH

__________________
“The subject no longer has to be mentioned by name. Someone is sick. Someone else is feeling better now. A friend has just gone back into the hospital. Another has died. The unspoken name, of course, is AIDS.”
“From the point of view of the pharmaceutical industry, the AIDS problem has already been solved. After all, we already have a drug which can be sold at the incredible price of $8, 000 an annual dose, and which has the added virtue of not diminishing the market by actually curing anyone.”

Parisyann

Thank you for your response & for naming the birds. I just googled it & saw some pix & yes I was referring to Hadidas. They were grey birds who would make annoying sounds in trees when the evening came, because of their huge wings & bodies. Scary birds but funny I thought.

I was visiting a friend in Pretoria that's why I was there but I found it was a nice city. I admit your drivers aren't very safe, and maybe I was a bit paranoid about the racism stuff. It's just that, as a "white man", I've never experienced so much hate from blacks towards me than there; but I can understand why.

Anyway this was just anecdotic & certainly means nothing & isn't to be generalized. My apologies. I wish I could visit Cape Town & some other cities next time. Cheers.

__________________
History is a nightmare from which I am trying to awake - Ulysses, James Joyce.

africanhope

Oh, I was not offended at all! There are racial problems in SA (we just came trhough a very bad incident) but I have never really felt open hate in the streets. But that there is a lot of devision still, I can not deny!!

Yes, Cape Town is a wonerfull city to visit. We have so much to see. You should come again!

AH

__________________
“The subject no longer has to be mentioned by name. Someone is sick. Someone else is feeling better now. A friend has just gone back into the hospital. Another has died. The unspoken name, of course, is AIDS.”
“From the point of view of the pharmaceutical industry, the AIDS problem has already been solved. After all, we already have a drug which can be sold at the incredible price of $8, 000 an annual dose, and which has the added virtue of not diminishing the market by actually curing anyone.”

discoman

Iam sorry herby that you feel that way,but I happen to agree with hypnox.
Lets face it, the Whites in South Africa
Started this Fire that they are now being burned by.It was White Settlers that shot and killed thousands of Blacks and stole their land.Iam sorry I can not have any sympathy for White so called,south Africans,knowing their Bloody and criminal
history.The Chickens are just all coming home to roost.You reap what you sow.
Whites created this problem.People like
P.W. Bootha,Ian Smith, and ohter White
leaders who thought they could come
to a Black continent and take over,even though they were numerically out numbered.