Quote:
Originally Posted by Scribbler1
There are indeed. More than you know, I suspect. Speaking as a White man, I, and a LOT of us are well aware of the fact that we share this country and are very seriously interested in why we have such differences.
|
It's fine that you are aware. But what are you going to do with that information? Sit on it? Or try to have an honest discussion about race without accusing anyone of racism?
Quote:
|
Sure, there are. Sometimes they're right and sometimes they're wrong. And there are easily as many who aren't so quick to judge. Is this a reason to abandon the attempt at dialog and dwell in your own preconceived assumptions?
|
Who said I was being quick to judge anyone? I'm talking about how I view the issue of race-related talk in America.
Quote:
|
I see the bolded part as a racist, blanket staement. I'm sure you didn't mean it to sound that way, but I'm quite sure if I had said ANYTHING starting with "But collectively, I think that BLACK people do not..." I would have been called a racist for lumping all Blacks together.
|
I don't think it is very racist to say that whites do not take seriously non-white people as a collective group if it is true. After all, if whites did take people of color seriously, there wouldn't be quick accusations of racism and there wouldn't be any patronizing, blanketed assumptions to boot.
You can discuss how much you denounce Don Imus until you are blue in the face, but what does it really solve if there are other white people who think the way he does and actively do so without any repercussions to them?
How else are you going to collectively talk about a group of people if the factors are made in good faith and speaks to a common experience?
Quote:
|
And I'm assuming you mean the references to Sharpton and Jackson from the Imus threads. These men played a large part in that story and many people (of BOTH races) don't see them as anything more than race hustlers.
|
You assumed wrong. Sometimes in race-related talks I've had with white people, they have thrown in references to Sharpton and Jackson as a way to separate the "good blacks" and the "bad blacks" in their view. Furthermore, then they mention Bill Cosby's so-called tongue-lashing at the Black community as a "good thing" when it actually disparages poor Black people.
Quote:
Please re-read the exchange that quote came from and explain where I was wrong in saying INDIVIDUALS take non-White people seriously.
That makes no sense.
|
It makes sense to me. You said on a personal level white people relate to non-white people more. Collectively, you said, this wasn't entirely the case. I think that's because that sometimes the dominant culture thinks in a "self-oriented" way opposed to a "community-oriented" one. And, that presents a problem when it has to do with discussions of race especially on the grounds of a semantic disconnect.
Because white people don't see themselves as a collective group, they can easily dismiss some of the experiences that non-white people make. And, they can't take responsibility for what has happened in a collectively, social basis. Now do you think that is fair?
Quote:
|
White people who are not a PART of an institution or a participant in history are not responsible for it.
|
How can you say that? White privilege is not a thing of the past. It still happens and it has been documented. There must be something going on because the social disparities between whites and people of color still exist. Someone has been doing this and as a result all whites have benefitted from it because of skin color.
That's not racist. It's just a factor of institutional racism and its repercussions.
Quote:
|
Once again, you used the blanket term "white people" and said they should take responsibility for things they may not be a part of.
|
Semantics aside, should white people be aware of their history, heritage and social standing in America? Should white people acknowledge the fact that their history has had these eras in time in which celebrated their supremacy legally, socially, and in practice? Should they not take responsibility for these things and work with it in order to deal with race-relations from a non-white perspective?
Quote:
|
And you're probably not even aware these attitudes are just as racist as blaming all Blacks for anything.
|
Why do you keep on assuming anything? I could say from the few posts you've written that you conveyed some very subtle racist attitudes about non-white people and their perceptions--especially when you keep on assuming things that you think you know about people of color.
Quote:
|
As I said, I'm quite happy to discuss this, so long as you can be specific as to what institutions and what people. Blanket statements serve no purpose.
|
Neither does assuming anything about me or any other people of color. But, I guess it is always by your rules and not anyone else's.
Quote:
|
I see no connection between the two. The argument about illegal immigration is not a racial one.
|
It definitely is, especially when they target the Latino community repeatedly when associating undocumented workers and illegal status. Do you think if a bunch of Europeans started crossing the border would other white people coin the term "illegal"?
Quote:
|
Specifics, please? I know I asked you once before to point up SPECIFICALLY what Sharpton has done for Blacks.
|
He showed that Blacks could run for President in America, despite his failure in this fact. He and Jesse Jackson were the first to do so. But it hasn't escaped your attention that Barack Obama now has to have a security detail due to his sudden popularity as a Presidential candidate. He was the first to do so.
Quote:
|
If I just wanted to "take it" I wouldn't BE here.
|
Then, why should any non-white person have to stoically take it and not discuss their views of the past when it has to do with race?
Quote:
|
Who said to "shut up" about anything? No one here, I'm sure.
|
You're right. No one had said it. But, in other race-related discussions, I was putting in context how certain catch-phrases such as "victimhood", "I don't see a color" and "we're all human beings" relate to telling a non-white person that their experiences are to be dismissed. When you put it in that light, it is almost as good as saying "shut up".
Quote:
|
Who said you WERE? If you look at my post in context you'll see I was not talking about you.
|
Who were you talking to then? The rest of the non-white people in America?
Quote:
|
I'd ask you to show me where I even implied that, but I won't because you can't.
|
Your posts implied that.