Political Forum



Dear guest,

Welcome to the internet's top destination for the civil discussion of politics. This is a forum for discussion and debate of the issues, and not for personal remarks aimed at other discussants.

This forum has no political affiliation and welcomes your perspective on the issues. Membership is free. If you would like to join the discussions and debates please REGISTER HERE.

All new members should review the forum rules. The "Today's Posts" button automatically adjusts itself to fit your screen on its first use for Firefox and on its second use, for Internet Explorer. Have a pleasant day. (This is a spam free board.)

Old 12-09-2007, 07:05 PM   #1 (permalink)
Conscript
 
Avoice's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Laconia, N.H.
Posts: 2
Country:
The Truth

You probably wonder who I am, I'm a middle class worker who works five to six days a week nine to ten hours a day for peanuts. My wife also works five days a week eight hours a day like most poor working Americans; and we have two children. What do I have to say? For most of you, you probably don't even care, or already know. But I feel I have to put it in words. I have been watching the political satire in this country for years, and have wondered for thirty years when will some one come along that will take care of us? Instead of everyone outside of the United States? The candidates running for presidency in 2008, who are they? Rich people bickering about each others private interests, and little innuendos thrown at each other. Instead of coming up with an answer that we all want to hear. We hear John Edwards speaking about how democrats, if they were all elected nothing would change. Which is true but what's his answer to the problem? Does he have one? We listen to Hillary Clinton that the middle class needs help, that our government has turned their backs on us. True again. But what is the answer? Hillary will give you an advertisement of a man on T.V. saying his son was going to die, and Hillary stepped in a saved the day. What about all the other millions of Americans? The great speech of no leaving children behind. Even if we don't leave them behind, what's the point? No future to go to. Then you have people like Mit Romney and Rudy Guliani who find it more interesting to find out who was hiring who at their own private residence purtaining to illegal aliens. With all the problems in America they spend their last debate on this kind of bull. And no answer for us middle class folks again. As far as the other candidates who knows them? I ask myself a serious question, why would these people want to go into an office that pays them less than the private sector they're leaving? You think it might be for fame? I don't. My answer, is to bring back all the soldiers back from Iraq and Afghanistan. If these people want to kill themselves, let them do so. It's time they learned to fight for whats right. And what do we do with those soldiers when we bring them back? We surround our borders with military. Eliminating the threat of terrorism in this country. What do we do with the billions and trillions of dollars that we spend? We spend it on building new refinarys, on refining coal and oil for fuel. We put tens of thousands of people to work, and don't wait, we do it now! Second we build a high speed train from the coast of California to the coast of main and put tens of thousands of people to work now! Third we hire more police and we gear them up with the equipment they need to deal with the thugs that live in this country. And we do it now! Take our tax dollars and put it to good use. It's time for we Americans to change our Congress and our Senate. To get rid of all these supposedly experienced government officials that have done nothing for us since before Vietnam. It's time for Americans to dig deap and look for the honest man to fill these positions. It's time for us Americans to let our congress and our senators know that you need to help us! And not just yourself. It's time for us Americans to put laws in place. That when a political official is not doing his job, even at the level of the presidency that we can immediately vote him out of office now! Just like when an employee does a bad job at the shop. It's time for these political employees to learn that they work for us, the Americans and not themselves. And you probably ask yourself, how do we do this? I believe for the first time in thirty plus years that we have a candidate that might be able to help us. A candidate who I believe doesn't have much experience in foreign policy, but who cares? It's time to take care of America, not the foriegners. That candidate is Barack Obama. I believe he has the four sight to put into law in stopping the lobbyists in Washington in lobbying for positions and big deals in this country. I think it's time for corporate America to realize the little guy has had enough of your bull. And all the political figures that go along with them. The End.
Avoice is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-09-2007, 08:01 PM   #2 (permalink)
Marquis
 
Caltex's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Austin, Texas
Posts: 2,042
Country:
"I have been watching the political satire in this country for years, and have wondered for thirty years when will some one come along that will take care of us?"

Relying on big brother to take care of you is a dangerous mistake. You've got to watch out for yourself, the government isn't ever going to look out for you, it looks out for itself. Personal responsibility is what this country was founded on, not a government playing father.

"Instead of coming up with an answer that we all want to hear."

That's the thing, different Americans want to hear different things. There is no consensus. Each candidate represents different views.

"We listen to Hillary Clinton that the middle class needs help, that our government has turned their backs on us."

It could be argued that the free trade agreements have been the cause for the increasing concentration of wealth at the top. By sending off the grunt work to China, corporations can produce cheaper, with slave like labor at the bottom, and good money at the top. The solution is for more Americans to get educated, so that they can work more efficiently at the top. Either we educate and move ahead of Chinese labor or we instill protective tariffs to avoid competition with it.

"all the other millions of Americans? The great speech of no leaving children behind. Even if we don't leave them behind, what's the point?"

Well, though the No Child Left Behind act has more or less failed, it had noble intentions. Its goal is to increase education and performance of American students, and thus allow them to enter the work force and be more efficient, and capable of higher level work. So it would in theory lead them to a better world.

"hen you have people like Mit Romney and Rudy Guliani who find it more interesting to find out who was hiring who at their own private residence purtaining to illegal aliens. With all the problems in America they spend their last debate on this kind of bull. And no answer for us middle class folks again."

Illegal immigration is very harmful to unskilled laborers in this country. Just look at the inner cities and their unemployement numbers. If we didn't have millions of illegals doing the work for pennies, the pay offered would be higher, and maybe these people would take the jobs and get off the streets.

"why would these people want to go into an office that pays them less than the private sector they're leaving? You think it might be for fame?"

Some for fame, some for power, others feel a moral duty, others want to change things.

"What do we do with the billions and trillions of dollars that we spend? We spend it on building new refinarys, on refining coal and oil for fuel. We put tens of thousands of people to work, and don't wait, we do it now! Second we build a high speed train from the coast of California to the coast of main and put tens of thousands of people to work now!"

That doesn't work. You don't tax, then spend it on government projects. Taxes slow economic activity, and government bureaucracy spends less efficiently then the free market. Far better to lower taxes on select groups and let the free market increase economic activity. Even better would be to pay off the federal debt.

"it's time for Americans to dig deap and look for the honest man to fill these positions."

No disagreement here.

"I believe for the first time in thirty plus years that we have a candidate that might be able to help us. A candidate who I believe doesn't have much experience in foreign policy, but who cares? It's time to take care of America, not the foriegners. That candidate is Barack Obama."

Obama's a hack. He talks change, because the polls show Americans want change, his ideas are all terrible. Obama wants to tell Americans what to do, he always speaks as if his word is the word of America, despite the fact most Americans disagree with him. He wants more government, higher taxes, and less economic freedom for the people. He is naive to the system, and is incapable of doing anything he claims he could do.


"I think it's time for corporate America to realize the little guy has had enough of your bull. And all the political figures that go along with them. The End."

Corporations aren't holding the little guy down. They simply fill demands of the market. Blame corrupt government. The bigger and more powerful a government, the more corrupt it will be.
__________________
Caltex is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-09-2007, 11:31 PM   #3 (permalink)
Knight
 
TeaSea's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Portland, Oregon
Posts: 431
Country:
Corporations aren't holding the little guy down so long as they can keep the little guy dumb enough to blame government for the shrinkage in his slice of the pie rather than taking a hard look at corporate influence on government.
How do they keep the little guy dumb? Reality TV. Stupid talk shows. Stupid sit-coms. Pandering advertisements. Buy the influence it takes to keep government policy maintaining a huge flow of funds to the military industrial complex at the expense of education. Meanwhile, short-circuit kids' attention spans and analytical abilities by providing lots of TV and computer games. They grow up too dumb to know who to be mad at or why, so they just blame the government. East target and everybody's doing it, so it must be the right thing to do.
TeaSea is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-09-2007, 11:35 PM   #4 (permalink)
Marquis
 
Caltex's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Austin, Texas
Posts: 2,042
Country:
Quote:
Originally Posted by TeaSea View Post
Corporations aren't holding the little guy down so long as they can keep the little guy dumb enough to blame government for the shrinkage in his slice of the pie rather than taking a hard look at corporate influence on government.
How do they keep the little guy dumb? Reality TV. Stupid talk shows. Stupid sit-coms. Pandering advertisements. Buy the influence it takes to keep government policy maintaining a huge flow of funds to the military industrial complex at the expense of education. Meanwhile, short-circuit kids' attention spans and analytical abilities by providing lots of TV and computer games. They grow up too dumb to know who to be mad at or why, so they just blame the government. East target and everybody's doing it, so it must be the right thing to do.
All of that prevenets people from voting intelligently, which causes us to have an ineffective government, that supports the causes of interest groups over the apathetic public. The people and the government are at fault for their situations, and their corrupt government, not an entity that exists to make money.
__________________
Caltex is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-09-2007, 11:52 PM   #5 (permalink)
Moderator
 
Sebelius for VP, not Hillary's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 14,231
Country:
Country:
Capitalism is inherently unfair.

Capitalism is a system that utilizes mans self-interest and greed to build and run the economy.

It should be expected that the little guy is going to get screwed.

That being said, there are a few other things to take into account here. The conservative party is still in a fairly competitive state, and they comprise some 40% of the electorate (my estimate). Going too far left will result in a backfire and the working man being set back once again.

This country is in a shitload of debt. We do not have the funds for a New Deal style public works program. We have to get out of debt and stop putting trickle-down Republicans in office. Then when we do that for a few years, then let's see where we are again.

Most likely, we can only make things as good as it was under Bill Clinton, that is as much political capital we can get out of the American people. Anymore socialism and government projects will cause a backlash.


WEB
__________________
Forum Rule 3: Discuss the Issue, not your opponent.

Sebelius for VP, not Hillary is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2007, 12:30 AM   #6 (permalink)
Reeve
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by W.E.B. Du Bois View Post
Capitalism is inherently unfair.

Capitalism is a system that utilizes mans self-interest and greed to build and run the economy.

It should be expected that the little guy is going to get screwed.

That being said, there are a few other things to take into account here. The conservative party is still in a fairly competitive state, and they comprise some 40% of the electorate (my estimate). Going too far left will result in a backfire and the working man being set back once again.

This country is in a shitload of debt. We do not have the funds for a New Deal style public works program. We have to get out of debt and stop putting trickle-down Republicans in office. Then when we do that for a few years, then let's see where we are again.

Most likely, we can only make things as good as it was under Bill Clinton, that is as much political capital we can get out of the American people. Anymore socialism and government projects will cause a backlash.


WEB
I think the problem with our economy currently is the fact that we are still in a transition state from one form of economy to another. We are currently going from an era of human industrialization, to an era of technological dominance, and in the process we are losing many jobs, and we are finding it difficult to replace them with jobs that actually produce something.
__________________
"The principle for which we contend is bound to reassert itself though it may be at another time and in another form."-Jefferson Davis, President of the Confederate States

NWNate is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2007, 12:22 PM   #7 (permalink)
Squire
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 193
No one coming out of a party machine or out of industry or out of church is ever going to have anything new to offer to America. They all have their institutional glasses on and it blinds them to what is going on and what can be done to solve our problems. We can organize our way out of our problems, but not with the same old organizations or the same attitude to organizations. Will it happens has a whole lot to do with how bad it has to happen, and with one fraction of the society feeding off all the rest what exactly are the chances that we can actually locate that fraction rather than turning on ourselves whole? We have a bad habit in this country of blaiming the innocent and rewarding the guilty. Why should that trend not continue forever?
Fido is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2007, 04:13 PM   #8 (permalink)
Conscript
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 3
The Truth

Quote:
Originally Posted by W.E.B. Du Bois View Post
Capitalism is inherently unfair.

Capitalism is a system that utilizes mans self-interest and greed to build and run the economy.

It should be expected that the little guy is going to get screwed.

That being said, there are a few other things to take into account here. The conservative party is still in a fairly competitive state, and they comprise some 40% of the electorate (my estimate). Going too far left will result in a backfire and the working man being set back once again.

This country is in a shitload of debt. We do not have the funds for a New Deal style public works program. We have to get out of debt and stop putting trickle-down Republicans in office. Then when we do that for a few years, then let's see where we are again.

Most likely, we can only make things as good as it was under Bill Clinton, that is as much political capital we can get out of the American people. Anymore socialism and government projects will cause a backlash.


WEB
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@

I've only started posting here a few days ago and don't know too much about which way the floor slants with you regulars, but I like what I just read in your reply to Voice. I'm a liberal leaning independent and I can't remember any better years that I ever had than the Bill Clinton years. I would cheerfully return or rather move on to another 8 such years when my retirement checks stretched from one month to the next with a little left over to enjoy life. Now I have to worry about keeping my home warm enough for my and my wifes old bones, pay our health insurance premiums, pay our co-pays, put food on the table and a couple of gallons of gas in the tank of the old car. Why is it that the seniors are being stiffed and the national debt is still going up a trillion dollars a year? Social programs my ass.
Old Corpse
Old Corpse is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2007, 05:11 PM   #9 (permalink)
Moderator
 
Sebelius for VP, not Hillary's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 14,231
Country:
Country:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Corpse View Post
I've only started posting here a few days ago and don't know too much about which way the floor slants with you regulars, but I like what I just read in your reply to Voice. I'm a liberal leaning independent and I can't remember any better years that I ever had than the Bill Clinton years. I would cheerfully return or rather move on to another 8 such years when my retirement checks stretched from one month to the next with a little left over to enjoy life. Now I have to worry about keeping my home warm enough for my and my wifes old bones, pay our health insurance premiums, pay our co-pays, put food on the table and a couple of gallons of gas in the tank of the old car. Why is it that the seniors are being stiffed and the national debt is still going up a trillion dollars a year? Social programs my ass.
Old Corpse
I like what they are doing in some European countries like Germany and Denmark, where they have gotten the best of both worlds of capitalism and socialism. However, we just have too much debt, and the value of the dollar is getting low and it's very worrisome.

In any case, how do we stiff the seniors, as you say? I don't know a great deal about government programs (social security/medicare) with that demographic.
__________________
Forum Rule 3: Discuss the Issue, not your opponent.

Sebelius for VP, not Hillary is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2007, 06:44 PM   #10 (permalink)
Marquis
 
Caltex's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Austin, Texas
Posts: 2,042
Country:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Corpse View Post
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@

I've only started posting here a few days ago and don't know too much about which way the floor slants with you regulars, but I like what I just read in your reply to Voice. I'm a liberal leaning independent and I can't remember any better years that I ever had than the Bill Clinton years. I would cheerfully return or rather move on to another 8 such years when my retirement checks stretched from one month to the next with a little left over to enjoy life. Now I have to worry about keeping my home warm enough for my and my wifes old bones, pay our health insurance premiums, pay our co-pays, put food on the table and a couple of gallons of gas in the tank of the old car. Why is it that the seniors are being stiffed and the national debt is still going up a trillion dollars a year? Social programs my ass.
Old Corpse
The FED has been fudging the CPI numbers, to show inflation as much lower then it really is. Since Social Security benefits are tied to the CPI inflation numbers, I'm really not surprised that your check doesn't go as far as it used to.

The CPI formula was changed in 1994 if I'm not mistaken, to its current flawed model. Here we are 13 years later. 13 years of flawed inflation adjustment would cause the problems you describe. It started under Clinton and democrat congress, though, and the republicans failed to fix it as well. We need the government to look into the FED and their CPI calculations asap.
__________________
Caltex is online now   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:05 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.1.0
A vBSkinworks Design
vB Ad Management by =RedTyger=

right