May the best person win the elections of 2008 - Page 3 - Political Forum

AzTeK · #21 (**permalink**) 10-14-2007, 12:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lordoftheworld

So only a black man can fix health care? Only a woman can fix our immigration issues? A white man cannot fix our overstretched military? A white man cannot fix our education? I'm not saying a black man cant, but i'm not going to say a white man cant either.
What does race have to do with those issues?

I took some time to respond to your questions to sort my thoughts out.

- I don't believe ANYONE can solve your healthcare issues. That's because your politicians are more afraid of lobbyists than they are of the people. Frankly, from other discussions I've noted that quite a few Americans tend to see a social healthcare system (whcih works great in the mjoarity of the western world, and in the end even costs less per person) is like...the devil in person. With lobbyists enacting their control over politicians, and people being to blinded to actually do something for themselves, it's game over. No single man, no government as a whole even, can change that.

- Anyone that puts enough heart into it and has the knowledge, experience and will to do it can fix ur immigration issue, your overstretched military AND your education. It just takes the guts to do it. The people are on politicians sides with this one, only the lobbyists have to be overcome. For education, I don't even know they exist - the way for meaning reforms is paved!

- As to what I believe no white man can fix, atleast not in one term in office, is your reputation around the world. Both Obama and Hillary can do this much easier than any white man. Because they, as persons, are testimony to the US willing to take a risk and make things change.

Tim · #22 (**permalink**) 10-14-2007, 03:19 PM

Quote:

....I personally am a big fan of Obama and think he can do great things for and with the US - but honestly, as of now, I doubt he'll get the nomination.

As mentioned by some others, Hillary is jut too big of a celebrity and media magnet, while Obama is rather media-shy - something that could end up costing him the nomination.

You think Obama is media shy?

Why are you such a big fan of his - and what wonderful things would he do for the American people?

Tim · #23 (**permalink**) 10-14-2007, 03:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AzTeK

.........- As to what I believe no white man can fix, atleast not in one term in office, is your reputation around the world. Both Obama and Hillary can do this much easier than any white man. Because they, as persons, are testimony to the US willing to take a risk and make things change.

Absolutely incredible - a parody of anti-Americanism, with the "evil white man" spin. So you really believe that white men are intrinsically inferior? Weird, creepy stuff. Political Correctness takes a new form every day.

It is hard to believe you really believe this rubbish. And the last time I checked, white men were in power in Austria.

As for hatred of Americans - it is not up to Americans to convince other people to "love" us. If others choose to hate us, that is their problem. If there are many people who think the way you do, it is a hopeless task anyway.

Moah · #24 (**permalink**) 10-15-2007, 09:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AzTeK

I might be leaning myself out of the window a bit far here by generalising and stereotyping, but I believe that the big changes that are needed in American Politics will NOT be achieved by a white male.

It might sound strange (make no mistake, I am white and male myself) but it's just a feeling I have, for which I don't really have an explanation. Call me racist of my own "race" (if there is such thing as races neways) or whatever, I just believe you guys will be better off with the next president not being white AND male.

That's one of the main reasons why I believe Obama would be - flat out - the best choice out there. Eventhough I have very little information about the republican candidates, since I'm no big fan of republicans neways.

voting for anyone based soley on race or gender is ummm... not to smarte

JeepKnut · #25 (**permalink**) 10-15-2007, 09:22 AM

...doesn't matter...race, creed, color or gender...all that matters is, are you right or wrong.

AzTeK · #26 (**permalink**) 10-15-2007, 11:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim

Absolutely incredible - a parody of anti-Americanism, with the "evil white man" spin. So you really believe that white men are intrinsically inferior? Weird, creepy stuff. Political Correctness takes a new form every day.

It is hard to believe you really believe this rubbish. And the last time I checked, white men were in power in Austria.

As for hatred of Americans - it is not up to Americans to convince other people to "love" us. If others choose to hate us, that is their problem. If there are many people who think the way you do, it is a hopeless task anyway.

Before you start attacking someone you should get your facts straight or atleast step back a bit until you know for sure that you'r offending words are actually aimed at the right guy.

First of all, I am a white guy myself. I posted that in this thread a while back, but instead of taking a bit of time to check the developement of this discussion, you decide to call me a racist.

Also to your remark of me being Anti-American - if, again, you would have researched a bit into my posts (there are not that many yet in this forum), you would have found out that I actually love Americans, the people, the country, pretty much everything about it. Except for W. Bush and anyone associated with him in the current government. Seriously, just because criticism against your oh so beloved country you think the guy writing it is immediately an american-hater? If you'r not opened to criticism (and that goes to the US as well as any other nation on the planet) you'r doomed to fail, because criticism is what makes people keep improoving! If I didn't care so much about your country you can be sure as hell I woulnd't even be wasting my time responding to your accusations.

By electing a black guy or a woman, American people express a very strong will to change things in their own country. This would of course be perceived as very welcome around the world. And there's no way you'd disagree with me if I say that international politics are 95% about symbolic acts and talking for the sake of talking. This would be the strongest symbolic message that the U.S. could send out to signal "we wan't to change - we're not happy with our situation (you shouldn't be, after all the dirt W. Bush has pulled you through) and we want change!" - second only to magically fixing Irak. Even if a european government wanted to substantially back the U.S., the resistance from the people would be too big! Those guys would be out of office sooner than I can say "God bless America".

Seriously, I hear people everyday saying stuff like "stupid americans, blablabla" and every single time I try engage them, ask them why they think that, and try to convince them they'r wrong, because you guys are amazing, in every sense of the way. Your guys just made a huge mistake by electing the current president and then a even huger one by reelecting him.

American support is crumbling as it is. Eventhough you are one of the biggest, if not the biggest (?) "donor" to developing and even already developed countries - still everyone is slowly but surely turning the back on you. Even the british, your closest ally, is pulling their troops out of Irak. The list of countries who have done the same thing before them is rather long. You'r right, it's not about making the world "love you", but it's about preventing ever more people from hating you! And, just to put this clear, they don't hate you for the sake of hating you, like the radical but unfortunately seemingly uneducated or atleast blinded Islam. They hate you because you have majorly screwed up in the recent past. I can't remember a single visit of any bigger american politician to Europe without being accompanied by massive protests in the past years. Come to think of it, you used to be greeted with cheers!

The economic and even the military position of America as "the sole remaining superpower" is being dimminished day by day due to the growht of countries like China, Russia, India, Brazil, etc. Do you really want to find yourself suddenly having equally powerful nations out there in the world, but having lost all your allies?

Greenspon2008 · #27 (**permalink**) 10-16-2007, 01:35 AM

As an independent candidate, I can only comment on the fact that I have an extremely difficult time in trying to even get a message out.

W.E.B., regarding your comment about bashing, I have a firm statement on my website (The Official Site of Jon Greenspon for US President in 2008) challenging other candidates to a fair, "non-mudslinging" campaign.... If I can't say something without degrading a candidate, I won't speak. Find any other candidates that will announce that option.

I'm also going to admit to all of you that I don't have all the answers for this country, no candidate does. I am, however, willing to work WITH the public towards solutions that benefit the majorities, preferably without discriminating the minorities in the process.

Here's a quickie on my platform:

Universal Health Care - No, the Government doesn't belong in your doctor's office with you.
Taxes - If you make less than $48,000/year. You should keep it all. If you make over that, a straight, flat tax is sufficient - before all the tax shelters and deductions that let millionaires get away with paying less than their fair share.
Illegal Immigration - If you came here illegally, start packing to go home, because I WILL send you home.
Congress and Budgets - Congress had better learn responsible legislation, because pork barrel spending will become a thing of the past.
Iraq and the War on Terror - First, I won't bring all the troops home. To do so would be suicide for both the Middle East, and for the US. I will, however, bring home troops such as the Guard who have no reason to be there. Also, I can say that it is possible to fund operations that must be made with significantly less budgetary demands then are currently being done.

I invite you to visit my website, and ask questions.

Jon Greenspon
Candidate, US President

Sebelius for VP, not Hillary · #28 (**permalink**) 10-16-2007, 01:52 AM

Welcome aboard sir and good luck on your campaign. Just FYI, you can put a link to your site in your signature. That will save you from having to put it in all of your posts.

Moah · #29 (**permalink**) 10-16-2007, 07:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AzTeK

Also to your remark of me being Anti-American - if, again, you would have researched a bit into my posts (there are not that many yet in this forum), you would have found out that I actually love Americans, the people, the country, pretty much everything about it. Except for W. Bush and anyone associated with him in the current government. Seriously, just because criticism against your oh so beloved country you think the guy writing it is immediately an american-hater? If you'r not opened to criticism (and that goes to the US as well as any other nation on the planet) you'r doomed to fail, because criticism is what makes people keep improoving! If I didn't care so much about your country you can be sure as hell I woulnd't even be wasting my time responding to your accusations.

By electing a black guy or a woman, American people express a very strong will to change things in their own country. This would of course be perceived as very welcome around the world. And there's no way you'd disagree with me if I say that international politics are 95% about symbolic acts and talking for the sake of talking. This would be the strongest symbolic message that the U.S. could send out to signal "we wan't to change - we're not happy with our situation (you shouldn't be, after all the dirt W. Bush has pulled you through) and we want change!" - second only to magically fixing Irak. Even if a european government wanted to substantially back the U.S., the resistance from the people would be too big! Those guys would be out of office sooner than I can say "God bless America".

Seriously, I hear people everyday saying stuff like "stupid americans, blablabla" and every single time I try engage them, ask them why they think that, and try to convince them they'r wrong, because you guys are amazing, in every sense of the way. Your guys just made a huge mistake by electing the current president and then a even huger one by reelecting him.

American support is crumbling as it is. Eventhough you are one of the biggest, if not the biggest (?) "donor" to developing and even already developed countries - still everyone is slowly but surely turning the back on you. Even the british, your closest ally, is pulling their troops out of Irak. The list of countries who have done the same thing before them is rather long. You'r right, it's not about making the world "love you", but it's about preventing ever more people from hating you! And, just to put this clear, they don't hate you for the sake of hating you, like the radical but unfortunately seemingly uneducated or atleast blinded Islam. They hate you because you have majorly screwed up in the recent past. I can't remember a single visit of any bigger american politician to Europe without being accompanied by massive protests in the past years. Come to think of it, you used to be greeted with cheers!

The economic and even the military position of America as "the sole remaining superpower" is being dimminished day by day due to the growht of countries like China, Russia, India, Brazil, etc. Do you really want to find yourself suddenly having equally powerful nations out there in the world, but having lost all your allies?

European countries dont love us like they did during the cold war because they feel they no longer need us. The middle east doesnt care for us because of our support for Isreal. As far as countries catching up to us in military power there is only 2.. China and Russia. Economically China is booming, the EU is strong atm, but so many countries in europe have failing economies ie France.

Im for the war in Iraq, but i feel like we should pull all our bases our of Europe. They act like they dont want us nor like us... fine lets quit dumping millions and millions of dollars into european countries by keeping the bases there. Use the Balkans and N Iraq. Quit sending out so much aid to other countries and withdraw from the UN.

BTW as Russia continues to revert to communism Europe will once again start to like us.