Is the world ready for a woman president? many cultures across the world look down on women. in contrast to my question, however, margaret thatcher did quite well

No, not really. I didn't have anything against her until she started campaigning as if she was some executive mastermind with all the answers. All of those answers involve allowing federal government deal with it for us, yet she couldn't even come up with a working health care plan when she had the chance. Why should I trust her to lead my country now?

Well, that doesn't just apply to Hillary or the Democrats, now, does it? All of the candidates have all kinds of researchers, lawyers, PR-types and handlers whispering sweet nothings in their ears constantly.

But it's a necessary evil in today's media-driven, scandal-mad election circus. Call something lime green when it's actually chartreuse, and watch the talking heads and pundits clamor to see who can be the first to point out that particular candidate's fault. Because if they can't tell the difference between lime green and chartreuse, then how in the hell are they going to manage the affairs of state?

Candidates have to be superhumanly perfect on every last detail, lest the media play it for all it's worth, and the divisive scum like Limbaugh or Sharpton blow it to proportions only surpassed by their own egos.

__________________
Tax & Spend > Borrow & Spend

I reject your reality and substitute my own.

Every feeling you've ever felt can be found in the works of Beethoven, Bruckner, Mahler, and Wagner.

I don't really know what all the fuss is about. The UK had a woman leader, so has India.

She'll probably be the same boring, middle of the road, moderate Republican that her husband was.


Big Bro

Men feel threatened by Hillary. She is exactly the sort of woman most men hate.
If she had been a man with all the negative qualities that are quoted about her, she would be praised and nobody would bother to stand against her because she would have such a huge following. Men can't see past the feminine side of her. I know you will all deny it, but
it's exactly the same in business. When men behave the way Hillary does they are respected as powerful leaders. But when women do it they are *itches.
The idea of a woman leading America and having the following she does and her character makes most men feel emasculated so they hate her. I bet none of the men who dislike her would want their wives and mothers to behave like her - in the opinion of men - she behaves too much like a man. Sorry guys but as much as you deny it, most men like their women meek, echoing their opinions of course that is if they have opinions other than what to make for dinner, wearing a pretty little frock.
To quote the words of an old song:
"hey little girl comb your hair, fix your make-up soon he will open the door.
Don't send him off with your hair still in curlers...
Day after day there are girls at the office and men will always be men,
If you don't.... you might not see him again"
These are the words my mother used to lecture to me when I was a young girl arguing with my dad and his friends about how stupid Apartheid was.
"Men don't like girls who argue with them dear."
That is what's really behind all the vitriol being spewed at HIllary.
So all I can say is get over it. We're here, with our handbags, high heels and with or without makeup we will take a share in the government whether men like it or not.
You have to admit Madeleine Albright was a brilliant Foreign Secretary and so is Condi Rice. Women can do the job, men know it and simply don't like it.
All of this is said with apologies and respect to present company.
Please don't all e-beat me at the same time.

Exactly, now everybody must look past her gender.
If I was a guy, I would think that a mother like that would only make me into a stronger, more ambitious, more driven man.
So with a president like that, imagine how great Americans can become again, suddenly being ambitious, driven and calculating will be fashionable again.

Hillary is an arrogant know-it-all, lacking plausible solutions. Once you get past her extravagant spending and willingness to attack Iran and Iraq, how much different is she from Bush? Liberals hear "socialized healthcare" and are mesmerized, but fail to see that her foreign policy is that of a neocon, and the fact that she supports the Patriot Act is not far off either. Why do I hate Hillary? Not much to like really....

I don't care if our President is a man, woman, black, brown, yellow, purple, a dog, a chicken, etcetera....if he/she/it can run the country properly I'd cast my vote for he/she/it. What you're doing here, it sounds like to me....is playing the female card and saying the fact that she made it this far means she's the strongest candidate - therefore you'll vote for her. Affirmative action for the presidency....really?

[quote]*chuckle*

You are probably correct that most men hate that sort of behavior - but it is not the exercise of power that is repellent: it is the extraordinary smugness and self-righteousness of her behavior and attitude.

That comment about men being "threatened" is always dragged out as a way of stopping all debate and discussion. If Hillary is going to run for president, she had better get used to addressing real questions and criticism and not hide behind the "woman as victim" routine. She is about as much a victim as George Bush.

So any disagreement with you is automatically denial? Any man who behaved as she does would receive the same amount of criticism. John Edwards behaves with the same combination of narcissism, hauteur, sarcastic condescension and breathtaking self-righteousness. He is also criticised.

Hillary does not behave as a leader. As you are dealing in stereotypes, I will match you: She does not display the masculine qualities of forthrightness, strength of character, determination, perseverence and courage. She absolutely refuses to acknowledge she is wrong about anything at all. She talkes "down" to people, making it clear that she does not respect them. She has attained power through her husband, and then whines when that is pointed out.


Oh yeah? You might start addressing your own attitudes towards men. Personally, I prefer woman who are strong and feisty and can match me in a verbal duel.

As for women in power, most American conservatives (including me) would have been happy to have Margaret Thatcher change citizenship and run for office in the US. She is a woman who I respect. She changed the world. Yet she never, at any time, pretended to be an ersatz man. She was not contemptuous and smug. She had no time to feel sorry for herself and hide behind the feminist victim rubbish. She is a straight talker. That is what Hillary lacks.

Well, there are virtually no women left like that - at least in the US. Women who are doormats are boring. There is nothing more attractive to me than a woman who is feminine and also is straightforward and forthright, and who does not play the victim routine. A woman's strength is not like a man's. If Hillary was like Thatcher or Merkel in Germany, I would respect her and listen to her, even if I disagreed with her.


There is a great deal behind the "vitriol" - and most of it is due to far-left-wing policies that I deplore, and associations with her husband, a weak and pathetic man who is not (to use an apt but very old fashioned term) a gentleman. I know he is "loved" elsewhere. Fine - let him scuttle across the globe seducing good looking women in every capital. It will keep him away from here.

I have no intention of "beating you up". But I will match you comment for comment.

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Our fears in Banquo stick deep; and in his royalty of nature reigns that which would be fear'd: 'tis much he dares; And, to that dauntless temper of his mind, he hath a wisdom that doth guide his valour to act in safety.

Macbeth 3:1

I've enjoyed reading some of the forum since finding it a couple days ago, and felt like I needed to put my 2 cents on this topic.

My wife and both talk politics fairly often, after being married for 15 years it's common subject. Neither of us trust Hilary Clinton for a few reasons.

1) She is not an original resident of New York, and chose that town as a place to establish her political roots, I would assume because of the solid lean to the left that generally exists there. I often wonder why she decided to not go back to Arkansas and run for a senate seat there? I don't respect someone who so easily discounts her place of origin just to best position herself for a run at the presidency.

2) Her policies run counter to what we want the president to do in some important areas.

3) Her demeanor is that of an over confident weasel, like she knows she will win regardless. In fact, it almost appears as though the act of winning is all she is concerned with, rather than what she will do to help fix the problems America faces. It seems that she takes critical comments to personally.

Anyway, both my wife and I will unfortunately be forced to vote for anyone other than Hilary, because we feel Hilary as a person is just bad for America. Because at this point it appears that the Democratic party has all but anointed her the final candidate, and that truly vexes us, because we so wanted to back away from the Republicans this election. We were forced to vote Bush last time due to even worse feelings about John Kerry, and those same bad feelings are present with Hilary.

Obama has some solid things we like, as does Edwards, but unfortunately, I doubt either of them will survive the race.

[quote=Tim;89900]Firstly you are arguing from the Right point of view. So immediately you are biased against the Left.

Perhaps you don't do it, but watch most men's reaction when they are standing around discussing politics and a woman joins them. Next time you have the opportunity, watch. The man she 'belongs' to will usually draw her towards him to show his ownership. The other men will react as follows:
1 An older man - father figure type will be all 'hello dearie' what are your bothering your pretty little head about, or is my wfie taking good care of you, or can I refill your glass, or how are you how's your little 'project (job) (studies) whatever going'. They never do that with a man joining the group.
2. The ones who see themselves as lady-killers will, if she is slightly attractive, adjust themselves smile and say come over and be all flirty.
3. The ones who were involved in the argument will either ignore her or continue talking but will not hide their irritation that they now have to watch their language around her.

When a new man joins them, none of this happens, they'll stop the talk and update the newcomer on whatever they're talking about.

If the woman approaching a a big name in business or politics or anything, the whole lot will whisper their partisanship about her unless her husband is around in which case they will condescend to him and say something like, 'bet you're proud of the little woman' as if he was responsible for her success.

No it's not being a victim (a word which is condescension of the worst kind) it's personal experience. It's holding a position of some power and overhearing yourself being referred to as that 'empire-building bitch' when you've done nothing worse than any man in the same position would do. The only time I've ever been a 'victim' is of my father's desire to see me as nothing more than a wife and mother. I am no victim. I have achieved success that has astonished even me without outside help but with the support of 5 wonderfully liberal men in my family who never consdescend and are never amazed by my success but greet every new one with, 'we never expect anything less from you' and are in fact surprised when I express insecurity.

I am not offended when men disagree with me. I will debate with anyone who I see as a worthy adversary. I am offended when men (or anybody) comment on my hair, clothes or body size. I don't see who looking good or bad has anything to do with my ability to do a job. When a man wears a new suit to the office, the women might say that he looks good but only if they see him as an inferior in the workplace. If the senior executive of the organisation dresses up they might comment about his clothes to each other but they would never be flirty about it. But if she is a woman, all the insecure men will find a way to try to compliment her looks as if that has anything to do with anything. I have a running battle with one of our local newspaper's columnists who makes comments about the way women in our area dress, saying that only the 'ladies' have their hair done and dress suitably when going out. This is not victim-speak it's irritation-speak.

Hillary's straight talking - I dunno I've seen some pretty straight talking from her.

Then while we are talking about women and men - one thing that drives me mad, I don't know if Americans do it but why do men think they have to kiss women to congratulate them - I always stick my hand out and inevitably some man will push his face towards mine in which case he ends up kissing air and looking stupid. They still do that kind of rubbish here.

What you have to realise too is that we are talking from two different cultures, and from two opposing points of view. South Africans are not as progressive as Americans, they like to think they are but women here are still pretty defensive the attitudes of men towards women. And please do try not to refer to us as 'victims' we aren't victims we are just tired of being made to look like we have to ask to be given equal treatment because if we take it we are called bitches.