Unity08: Select & Elect a Unity Ticket in the 2008 Presidential Race

This site was advertised for on the Colbert Report. It's a pretty neat concept. You can submit who you think would make the best President/Vice President pairing and they are going to try to get Unity '08 on the official ballot in election next year.

You can see who I chose in my avatar. Bill Richardson for President and Ron Paul for VP. The way I see it if Bill Richardson acted as a foreign diplomat, commander-in-chief, etcetera and Ron Paul handled domestic policy and fiscal issues we could possibly experience the best 4 years in American history.

Who would be on your dream ticket?

The key word here is "dream." The US is a two-party system, always has been, always will be. We've had a third-party candidate win two times, one being Abraham Lincoln, and I forget the other time. However, I believe that when a third party candidate did win, one of the other two major parties had to collapse to allow a third party to run.

In my opinion, a third party along the lines of Unity08 merely siphons off support from Democrats moreso than Republicans and thus makes a GOP victory more likely. That would be its only effect.

__________________
Formerly W.E.B. Du Bois (you can still call me "WEB")

Current Diplomacy thread
WEB Music Playlist
Protest Animal Cruelty

It's not impossible for a Third Party to win the Presidency. A Third Party can win any one, single election under the right circumstances.

It just doesn't change anything. It's only 4-8 years.

__________________
chicken butt

It is impossible. Third Parties don't win, one of the major parties collapses and hands its mantle to the third party, that's how it works. Given the digital age and the internet age, neither of the two big parties will ever fall so far out of touch with its base so as to allow that to happen. That's why 3rd parties have only won national elections twice in the past 230 years.

__________________
Formerly W.E.B. Du Bois (you can still call me "WEB")

Current Diplomacy thread
WEB Music Playlist
Protest Animal Cruelty

The Republican party was a third party before it became one of the two major parties. Sure, we have a two party system, but even if it remains that way should the more qualified candidates (imo) such as Biden and Richardson take a back seat to the instantly popular candidates like Clinton and Obama? I think something needs to be done and if it takes votes away from one party, maybe they'll realize changes need to be made.

Also, I'll contend that if people did research on Libertarianism, many Americans would find that they fall more in to the Libertarian party platform than either of the two major parties. I think something like 15% of Americans claim to be Libertarians right now, and those numbers are rising while the other two party's numbers are falling.

Lastly, I didn't really intend for this thread to be an intense debate on the issues like this. I just wanted to see if some people were willing to cross party lines or what people's ideal Presidential/VP pairings would be. Whether it's plausible or not is an issue, but arguing that people should choose the lesser of the two evils is rather ignorant and frankly un-American. If I don't like either (and if it's Clinton or Obama V. Thompson or Giuliani I will not) then I will not cast my vote for who I don't like the least.

Bringing together the parties, as Unity '08 is trying to do, is something that needs to happen in America. Until it does, no progress will be made in Congress or in the de-polarization of the American political arena. Partisan politics is an easy scapegoat for many issues, but we need to start addressing our problems not shoving them off on others.

Anyway, if anyone wants to post his/her dream ticket, say why mine wouldn't work out, or both....please do!

It is impossible. Third Parties don't win, one of the major parties collapses and hands its mantle to the third party, that's how it works. Given the digital age and the internet age, neither of the two big parties will ever fall so far out of touch with its base so as to allow that to happen. That's why 3rd parties have only won national elections twice in the past 230 years.


Ross Perot led in the polls in 1992, and it wasn't all that brief(about three months from April to June '92). Only his Howard Dean-like self-destruction prevented him from winning that election.

Third parties can win, but winning the Presidency is still only one office. Parties aren't viable when they have only one member, even if that member is the President(or a governor).

The Republicans weren't built that way. They had Congressmen elected first, and then they got a President four years later.

__________________
chicken butt

I have to say that this has been a great thread for me, in large part due to your comments. I did research for about 90 minutes to write this reply. It's not going to be that great though.

Firstly, let's look at the historical record. I would say that the most famous example of a third party victory (the Republicans over the Democrats in 1860 by Abraham Lincoln) was due more the entire collapse of the Whig Party in the early 1850's than to the success of the Republican Party. The Whig Party and the Democrats were the two major parties and the Whig Party imploded over the slavery issue and the base of the Whig Party reformed itself into the Republican Party. So this tells you how hard it is for a third party candidate to win: namely that one of the two major parties has to fall apart in order to make way for a third party.

Secondly, as for Ross Perot. You are right in pointing out that he was leading in the polls by the late Spring, early Summer. However, it's also interesting to note that he withdrew from the race as the media started criticizing his alleged ruthlesness in dealing with his opponents as a businessman, as well as his calling black people "you people" at an NAACP convention.

So this leaves the possibility open that maybe Perot bailed out because he thought that he did not have much substance underneath all the rhetoric. Or maybe he was just a wacko.

In any case, the fact that he did do well is a point to be seriously taken. I don't know why the public hated the Democrats guts so much in 1992, however I would say that at that time we had a recession going on, and Bush Sr. had reneged on his promise not to raise taxes.

In conclusion, I would say that regardless of what theory tells us, the historical evidence is even more solid than I thought before: third parties don't beat the two party system.

__________________
Formerly W.E.B. Du Bois (you can still call me "WEB")

Current Diplomacy thread
WEB Music Playlist
Protest Animal Cruelty

You have to take into account unique circumstances though. Things are changing fast. Right now you have people who are talking to the whole country every day, saying the Democrats and Republicans are lousy leaders. Those in their thirties and younger care more about digital toys then they do about politics, maybe for good reason. Producerism is on the rise as a political position. The population at large is not conservative; it’s the small states and senior citizens who are keeping it alive for the moment.
>>>>>>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------->
--- "The worst deaf is the one who doesn't want to hear." ---

--- "In the kingdom of the blind, the one-eyed man is king." ---

--- “Better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt.” ---
ß-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------<<<<<<

I disagree. I think that this country is a bit conservative. Look at the Democrats who ran in 2006. Jim Webb is extremely conservative, so is Harold Ford. A lot of the Democrats who picked up battleground states were socially conservative and moderates on other issues.

By the way, you can put your quotes in your signature (click on "User CP" and then on "Edit Signature").


WEB

__________________
Formerly W.E.B. Du Bois (you can still call me "WEB")

Current Diplomacy thread
WEB Music Playlist
Protest Animal Cruelty

Look at it this way for a moment. Much of the money in this country is still controlled by older generations. What happenes when the money is past down to the internet-porn-lookin’, cell phone-chatterin’, controller-button-pushin’ sons? Money gets these people into the government.