Political Forum



Dear guest,

Welcome to the internet's top destination for the civil discussion of politics. This is a forum for discussion and debate of the issues, and not for personal remarks aimed at other discussants.

This forum has no political affiliation and welcomes your perspective on the issues. Membership is free. If you would like to join the discussions and debates please REGISTER HERE.

All new members should review the forum rules. The "Today's Posts" button automatically adjusts itself to fit your screen on its first use for Firefox and on its second use, for Internet Explorer. Have a pleasant day. (This is a spam free board.)

Forum Today's Posts Posts Since Last Visit Join the Members Map!
Go Back   Political Forum - US & World Political Discussion Forums > Forum Rules - Special Topics > The 2008 Election

View Poll Results: Will corporations give up the their hold on American politics w/o being forced to?
yes 0 0%
no 10 100.00%
Voters: 10. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Submit Tools LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 09-05-2007, 08:54 AM   #1 (permalink)
Conscript
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 4
On Change and Experience: The Clinton Years 1993-2000

I recently heard Hillary Clinton on a story on CNN talking about herself as the candidate of both Change and Experience. It got to me to thinking and to remembering.

Like many Americans today I have a certain sense of nostalgia for the peace and relative prosperity of the Clinton years. I yet admire the Bill Clinton both for his deep human empathy and the passionate eloquence with which he speaks. His greatest achievements, the reduction of the deficit for example, were accomplished through the force of this magnificent personality and the sense of optimism that it fostered throughout the full range of Americans. I further recognize that Hillary Clinton has always been the strong woman behind the great man, and as such I recognize her claim to being the most experience democratic candidate. It is the “change” part of her assertion that concerns me.

In 1992, after Giving Ross Perot due consideration, I voted for Bill Clinton. I was a 27 year-old, blue-collar worker, a husband and father of three small children, who had abandoned his dream of being an applied cultural anthropologist some five years earlier, in order to face the harsh economic realities of raising a family in the late Regan/Bush 1 era. At work I had recently become active in the union there, serving as shop steward and as the representative of the shop to the union’s local executive board. At the time, I was kind of a Jeffersonian Marxist, a socialist democrat, advocating the “middle way” approach of countries like Sweden. Thus, confronted with the choice of George Bush, Ross Perot, or Bill Clinton, I choose Clinton as the most realistic chance of bringing forth meaningful change.

Even in 1996, after the signing of NAFTA, the failure of the Clintons to get even a corporatist version of universal healthcare through, the loss of the democratic majority in both House and Senate in 1994, I again voted for Bill Clinton, although not in the primary. In part this continued support was because my own worldview had changed. My exposure to the ideology of Total Quality in late 1994 had allowed me to see a form of capitalism, albeit a radical one, that could hold the potential of being fair to all stakeholders, including rank and file workers. I hoped that the corporations might change themselves in response to global economic and ecological pressures. Thus, I was more tolerant of the obvious Clinton linkage to Corporate International than I might have been before. Giving them the benefit of the doubt, I rationalized that it was simply a matter of political necessity.

During the late 90’s I became increasingly involved in the Labor Movement. From my representative role as chief shop steward of my plant, to my efforts to reform a largely ineffectual local union internally, I fought desperately for meaningful change. At about the same time I became embroiled in a conflict between the International Union and the company I worked for over the critical issues of the company’s union busting activities and their infidelity to a “twenty year” commitment to a Total Quality agreement. This conflict would eventually culminate in a nationwide strike at the very end of the Clinton Administration. Thus I, like thousands of others, was involved in the short-lived resurgence of Labor at the very end of this period, when even an only slightly less tilted playing field, allowed Organized Labor to actually increase membership rolls for the first time in decades. But it must be noted that the Democratic Clinton Administration, like the Administrations of Carter, Johnson, Kennedy before it, did nothing to address the “death of Unions by slow strangulation” sentence implicit in certain provisions of the Taft-Hartley amendment enacted in 1947 over the veto of then president Harry Truman. Truman had called it the “slave-labor bill” and warned that it would “conflict with important principles of our democratic society.” He was right, of course, and I fault the Clintons along with the other Democratic administrations that preceded them, for lacking the moral courage and resolve to attempt to reverse this shameless historical pandering to the interests of Big Business at the expense of working people.

In late 2000, just as I was running for the office of Local president/business manager, the tide was beginning to turn on Labor. The late Clinton/Bush II recession was just beginning to set in. It would not start to subside until late 2003, and only then, when the bottom 80% of Americans had seen their real standard of living reduced by an average of 10%. During my term of office the Local union endured three major plant closings out of a total of 18 bargaining units, including the retaliatory closing of my own home plant. Only by the most strenuous cost cutting and internal organizing measures did we manage to stay afloat. But still we continued to do our best to represent our members on a shoestring budget, against the power of massive corporations with millions and millions of dollars at their disposal. We still continued to fight on.

As senator, after September 11, 2001, Hillary Clinton would be swept away in America’s understandable, but nonetheless wrong, overreaction to this tragic event. She would vote for the Patriot Act (and against the Bill of Rights) in both 2001 and for its reauthorization in 2006. She would vote to authorize pre-emptive war against Iraq, even though the alleged risks the neo-cons fed her were unproven, and, indeed, have subsequently been completely disproved. But Corporate America/International thought it would be nice to have a stable, pro-western government in Iraq to help keep energy prices low, and these institutions are, of course, the principle contributors to both Clinton’s political war chest and those of her alleged neo-con opponents’. The problem, of course, has been that the neo-cons and their “okay-dokey” Democratic supporters have been utterly unable to provide that stable, Iraqi government, in spite of all the American and Iraqi blood shed there. To date Mrs. Clinton has yet to apologize to the American people for any of these serious mistakes in judgment.


So I must dispute Mrs. Clinton’s claim to be the candidate of change. I am but one of literally hundreds of thousands of activists, from environmentalists, to community organizers, to union representatives, to social workers, to educators and religious leaders, to simply concerned citizens, all of whom have genuinely been fighting tooth and nail for meaningful change in a system dominated by corporate influence at every level.

More often than not, even during Bill Clinton’s Administration, we have been trounced soundly. Yet we fight on, with limited resources and against all but impossible odds. We fight for the sakes of our children, grandchildren, and all those generations that will come after. We fight for ecological responsibility, economic fairness, human freedom and human dignity.

So I entreat you Mrs. Clinton to rejoin the ‘revolution’ you believed in your youth. Come down from your elitist “semi-Liberal” pedestal and rejoin the fight for the sake of the common man and woman.

Renounce all that political money you have accepted from the most evil of the corporations, from the oil, pharmaceutical, financial, retail, and free trade lobbies. Free us from the worry over how much “influence” it has bought them.

If you have become too much of “political realist” to do this, let all Americans understand the kind of change that you have been “fighting” for. Let them all know the fundamental change your election (assuming you don’t give the race back to the Republicans) will bring.

Absolutely nothing of substance will change.

America will continue to be further and further subjugated to the will of the corporations; just it has, without interruption since the end of the Carter Administration.
David_Nichols is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-05-2007, 09:33 AM   #2 (permalink)
Moderator
 
Sebelius for VP, not Hillary's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 14,254
Country:
Country:
Hi Dave. Question about your thread title. Do you mean to say:

Do you believe that the Corporations will give up the their hold over the American People?
__________________
Forum Rule 3: Discuss the Issue, not your opponent.

Sebelius for VP, not Hillary is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-05-2007, 10:21 AM   #3 (permalink)
Conscript
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 4
Actually, the poll question was.

Do you believe that the Corporations will give up the their hold over the American Political process without being forced to?
David_Nichols is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-05-2007, 10:23 AM   #4 (permalink)
Conscript
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 4
Actually, the poll question was.....

Do you believe that the Corporations will give up the their hold over the American Political process without being forced to?

I guess it was too long for this poll format
David_Nichols is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-05-2007, 10:53 AM   #5 (permalink)
Moderator
 
Sebelius for VP, not Hillary's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 14,254
Country:
Country:
Modified the poll for you to make the question fit.
__________________
Forum Rule 3: Discuss the Issue, not your opponent.

Sebelius for VP, not Hillary is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-08-2007, 04:35 AM   #6 (permalink)
Hermes' Bird Moderator
 
Kazikli Bey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Amestris
Posts: 2,863
Country:
Country:
Send a message via AIM to Kazikli Bey Send a message via MSN to Kazikli Bey
I voted no, unfortunately i believe that through the excesses of capitalism and the corporate moguls being caught up in politics to pursue their own agendas in making more money and paying less, that they will never give up their strange hold over politics peacefully.
__________________
I hear people saying how they are going to fight in the Revolution, how they're goin' to die for the Revolution. You know what, I never hear anybody say how they're gonna kill for the Revolution. You know what I say? I say 'Fuck the Revolution'.

The BEST comic ever!!!

Discuss the Issue, NOT the Poster

Common insult examples and how to avoid them
Kazikli Bey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-08-2007, 03:09 PM   #7 (permalink)
Squire
 
Sinn Fein's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 114
Country:
Quote:
Originally Posted by W.E.B. Du Bois View Post
Hi Dave. Question about your thread title. Do you mean to say:

Do you believe that the Corporations will give up the their hold over the American People?
I think that he means that no one in power (atleast not this administration) will force the Corporations to give it up... not that the title is to long... am I right?
__________________
They say the sun never sets on the
British empire --- well, baby, it's setting.

-Frank McCourt

Last edited by Sinn Fein; 09-08-2007 at 03:27 PM.
Sinn Fein is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-08-2007, 03:14 PM   #8 (permalink)
Moderator
 
iTaliAN_ICe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Virginia
Posts: 2,670
Country:
Country:
No. I believe we should force them to give it up and make elections nonpartisan and publicly funded.
iTaliAN_ICe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-08-2007, 03:32 PM   #9 (permalink)
Squire
 
Sinn Fein's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 114
Country:
Why is it that people say Hillary is 'experienced' and Obama isn't. Well, shes only been a senator 2 (or was it 3) years longer than him... so is he going to suddenly know the secrets of the world in 2/3 years? Unless you count her being with, or not with, the former President Bill Clinton, which shouldn't count.
__________________
They say the sun never sets on the
British empire --- well, baby, it's setting.

-Frank McCourt
Sinn Fein is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-08-2007, 06:07 PM   #10 (permalink)
Hermes' Bird Moderator
 
Kazikli Bey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Amestris
Posts: 2,863
Country:
Country:
Send a message via AIM to Kazikli Bey Send a message via MSN to Kazikli Bey
Quote:
Originally Posted by iTaliAN_ICe View Post
No. I believe we should force them to give it up and make elections nonpartisan and publicly funded.
And here i was thinking you were republican, that is a great idea but i doubt it would ever be pushed through.
__________________
I hear people saying how they are going to fight in the Revolution, how they're goin' to die for the Revolution. You know what, I never hear anybody say how they're gonna kill for the Revolution. You know what I say? I say 'Fuck the Revolution'.

The BEST comic ever!!!

Discuss the Issue, NOT the Poster

Common insult examples and how to avoid them
Kazikli Bey is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:15 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.1.0
A vBSkinworks Design
vB Ad Management by =RedTyger=

right