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Old 05-24-2007, 04:14 PM
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emptypepsi emptypepsi is offline
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Wow, funny...

The Blog | Mark Jeffrey: Ron Paul: Internet Celeb? | The Huffington Post

Mr. Ron Paul has been gaining quite the popularity, yet it has been barely covered by the media. Strange...

Another interesting article - Why Ron Paul’s Answer Terrifies Them by Jacob G. Hornberger

"Ending interventionism, terrorism, and the “war on terror” would also mean that the era of big government in foreign affairs could be brought to an end. No wonder the Republican establishment is so terrified of Ron Paul’s foreign-policy message."


Any thoughts on why Ron Paul's growing interest is not being covered by the media? The second article sheds an opinion, but I'd like to hear others views on this.
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Last edited by emptypepsi : 05-24-2007 at 04:18 PM.
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Old 05-24-2007, 04:22 PM
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FRYandBENDER FRYandBENDER is offline
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I was listening to Sean Hannity and he was a total dick towards Ron Paul. I was so pissed..... but not surprised. He was commenting on Ron Paul stating the reasons people in the middle east have a problem with us and he tried to twist it around to seem like Ron Paul was saying that 9/11 was all our fault.

I hear that Ron Paul is pretty big on the internet. Maybe if there are enough people getting their info from the net he might have a chance.
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Neither am I the means to any end others may wish to accomplish. I am not a tool for their use. I am not a servant of their needs. I am not a bandage for their wounds. I am not a sacrifice on their altars. ... I owe nothing to my brothers, nor do I gather debts from them. I ask no one to live for me, nor do I live for others. I covet no mans soul, nor is my soul theirs to covet.

Ayn Rand, Anthem.
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Old 05-24-2007, 04:27 PM
Think for myself Think for myself is offline
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Originally Posted by FRYandBENDER View Post
I was listening to Sean Hannity and he was a total dick towards Ron Paul. I was so pissed..... but not surprised. He was commenting on Ron Paul stating the reasons people in the middle east have a problem with us and he tried to twist it around to seem like Ron Paul was saying that 9/11 was all our fault.

I hear that Ron Paul is pretty big on the internet. Maybe if there are enough people getting their info from the net he might have a chance.
I have yet to truly understand the Ron Paul fascination.

Here's why. He has flipped parties several times. He loses as a Republican he becomes a Libertarian. He swears a life long allegiance to the Libertarians then he runs as a Republican. Seems a bit opportunistic to me. Can you explain why people like him so much?
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Old 05-24-2007, 04:37 PM
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FRYandBENDER FRYandBENDER is offline
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War and Foreign Policy
The war in Iraq was sold to us with false information. The area is more dangerous now than when we entered it. We destroyed a regime hated by our direct enemies, the jihadists, and created thousands of new recruits for them. This war has cost more than 3,000 American lives, thousands of seriously wounded, and hundreds of billions of dollars. We must have new leadership in the White House to ensure this never happens again.

Both Jefferson and Washington warned us about entangling ourselves in the affairs of other nations. Today, we have troops in 130 countries. We are spread so thin that we have too few troops defending America. And now, there are new calls for a draft of our young men and women.

We can continue to fund and fight no-win police actions around the globe, or we can refocus on securing America and bring the troops home. No war should ever be fought without a declaration of war voted upon by the Congress, as required by the Constitution.

Under no circumstances should the U.S. again go to war as the result of a resolution that comes from an unelected, foreign body, such as the United Nations.

Border Security and Immigration Reform

The talk must stop. We must secure our borders now. A nation without secure borders is no nation at all. It makes no sense to fight terrorists abroad when our own front door is left unlocked. This is my six point plan:

1. Physically secure our borders and coastlines. We must do whatever it takes to control entry into our country before we undertake complicated immigration reform proposals.
2. Enforce visa rules. Immigration officials must track visa holders and deport anyone who overstays their visa or otherwise violates U.S. law. This is especially important when we recall that a number of 9/11 terrorists had expired visas.
3. No amnesty. Estimates suggest that 10 to 20 million people are in our country illegally. That’s a lot of people to reward for breaking our laws.
4. No welfare for illegal aliens. Americans have welcomed immigrants who seek opportunity, work hard, and play by the rules. But taxpayers should not pay for illegal immigrants who use hospitals, clinics, schools, roads, and social services.
5. End birthright citizenship. As long as illegal immigrants know their children born here will be citizens, the incentive to enter the U.S. illegally will remain strong.
6. Pass true immigration reform. The current system is incoherent and unfair. But current reform proposals would allow up to 60 million more immigrants into our country, according to the Heritage Foundation. This is insanity. Legal immigrants from all countries should face the same rules and waiting periods.

Privacy and Personal Liberty
The biggest threat to your privacy is the government. We must drastically limit the ability of government to collect and store data regarding citizens’ personal matters.

We must stop the move toward a national ID card system. All states are preparing to issue new driver’s licenses embedded with “standard identifier” data – a national ID. A national ID with new tracking technologies means we’re heading into an Orwellian world of no privacy. I voted against the Real ID Act in March of 2005.

To date, the privacy focus has been on identity theft. It was Congress
that created this danger by mandating use of the standard identifier (currently your SSN) in the private sector. For example, banks use SSNs as customer account identifiers because the government requires it.

We must also protect medical privacy. Right now, you’re vulnerable. Under so-called "medical privacy protection" rules, insurance companies and other entities have access to your personal medical information.

Financial privacy? Right now depositing $10,000 in your local bank will generate a “suspicious activity report” to the federal government.

And then there’s the so-called Patriot Act. As originally proposed,

* Expanded the federal government's ability to use wiretaps without judicial oversight;
* Allowed nationwide search warrants non-specific to any given location, nor subject to any local judicial oversight;
* Made it far easier for the government to monitor private internet usage;
* Authorized “sneak and peek” warrants enabling federal authorities to search a person’s home, office, or personal property without that person’s knowledge; and
* Required libraries and bookstores to turn over records of books read by their patrons.


I have fought this fight for many years. I sponsored a bill to overturn the Patriot Act and have won some victories, but today the threat to your liberty and privacy is very real. We need leadership at the top that will prevent Washington from centralizing power and private data about our lives.

Property Rights and Eminent Domain
We must stop special interests from violating property rights and literally driving families from their homes, farms and ranches.

Our country’s founders would roll over in their graves if they saw the takings clause in the Fifth Amendment used to justify booting people out of their homes for the profit of private developers and tax-hungry local governments. The Supreme Court’s Kelo decision said government power could be used to condemn private homes and churches to benefit a huge pharmaceutical corporation and a large property developer.

Today, we face a new threat of widespread eminent domain actions as a result of powerful interests who want to build a NAFTA superhighway through the United States from Mexico to Canada.

We also face another danger in regulatory takings: Through excess regulation, governments deprive property owners of significant value and use of their properties – all without paying “just compensation.”

Property rights are the foundation of all rights in a free society. Without the right to own a printing press, for example, freedom of the press becomes meaningless. The next president must get federal agencies out of these schemes to deny property owners their constitutional rights to life, liberty, and property

Debt and Taxes
Working Americans like lower taxes. So do I. Lower taxes benefit all of us, creating jobs and allowing us to make more decisions for ourselves about our lives.

Whether a tax cut reduces a single mother’s payroll taxes by $40 a month or allows a business owner to save thousands in capital gains taxes and hire more employees, that tax cut is a good thing. Lower taxes allow more spending, saving, and investing which helps the economy – that means all of us.

Real conservatives have always supported low taxes and low spending.

But today, too many politicians and lobbyists are spending America into ruin. We are nine trillion dollars in debt as a nation. Our mounting government debt endangers the financial future of our children and grandchildren. If we don’t cut spending now, higher taxes and economic disaster will be in their future – and yours.

In addition, the Federal Reserve, our central bank, fosters runaway debt by increasing the money supply – making each dollar in your pocket worth less. The Fed is a private bank run by unelected officials who are not required to be open or accountable to “we the people.”

Worse, our economy and our very independence as a nation is increasingly in the hands of foreign governments such as China and Saudi Arabia, because their central banks also finance our runaway spending.

We cannot continue to allow private banks, wasteful agencies, lobbyists, corporations on welfare, and governments collecting foreign aid to dictate the size of our ballooning budget. We need a new method to prioritize our spending. It’s called the Constitution of the United States.

Ron Paul 2008
__________________
Neither am I the means to any end others may wish to accomplish. I am not a tool for their use. I am not a servant of their needs. I am not a bandage for their wounds. I am not a sacrifice on their altars. ... I owe nothing to my brothers, nor do I gather debts from them. I ask no one to live for me, nor do I live for others. I covet no mans soul, nor is my soul theirs to covet.

Ayn Rand, Anthem.
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  #5 (permalink)  
Old 05-24-2007, 04:54 PM
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emptypepsi emptypepsi is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Think for myself View Post
I have yet to truly understand the Ron Paul fascination.

Here's why. He has flipped parties several times. He loses as a Republican he becomes a Libertarian. He swears a life long allegiance to the Libertarians then he runs as a Republican. Seems a bit opportunistic to me. Can you explain why people like him so much?
Attack his party affiliation all you want, his philosophy (which is what I hope people vote on, not straight ticket party voters) has not bent and twisted for the parties he has alligned with. Case in point - his current troubles with the Republicans. Your point would matter more if he was out saying the same thing as practically every other Republican (then making it the 'convenience' factor), when in fact most are trying to keep him from being noticed. How is that oppurtunistic for Paul?
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Last edited by emptypepsi : 05-24-2007 at 05:28 PM.
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Old 05-24-2007, 05:10 PM
jb_1430 jb_1430 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by emptypepsi View Post
The Blog | Mark Jeffrey: Ron Paul: Internet Celeb? | The Huffington Post

Mr. Ron Paul has been gaining quite the popularity, yet it has been barely covered by the media. Strange...
Same reason Brownback, Gilmore and Hagel are "barely covered by the media". They are only pulling 1% in the polls. MARK
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Old 05-24-2007, 05:27 PM
Think for myself Think for myself is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by emptypepsi View Post
Attack his party affiliation all you want, his philosophy (which is what I hope people vote on, not straight ticket party voters) has not bent and twisted for the parties he has alligned with. Case in point - his current troubles with the Republicans. Your point would matter more if he was out saying the same thing as practically every other Republican (then making it the 'concenience' factor), when in fact most are trying to keep him from being noticed. How is that oppurtunistic for Paul?
Listen, I don't know enough about the guy to formulate an opinion one way or another definitively. What I do know about him I don't care for. It doesn't mean that he's bad. I just want your opinion on why you think he's good.
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Old 05-24-2007, 05:33 PM
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emptypepsi emptypepsi is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Think for myself View Post
Listen, I don't know enough about the guy to formulate an opinion one way or another definitively. What I do know about him I don't care for. It doesn't mean that he's bad. I just want your opinion on why you think he's good.
But you do know enough to make other comments regarding him? You allude to some "sworn affiliation" to the Libertarians, but he never made a "sworn" affiliation with the Libertarians. He got the nomination in 88 despite not having done that, which I think says a lot about his character and philosophy (as a former Libertarian, I can say that most of them are very critical of Republicans). He also only switched parties once, not "several times". The Libertarians did support him so much and still do that they openly continue to assist in financing him of their own volition, which would indicate their affiliation with him, if anything.

Anyway, what I like about him is that when I listen to him talk I genuinely feel like I'm getting less BS than Rudy McRomney and their ass-kissing pundits. He speaks what I think on nearly every subject. He, based on his voting record, seems to make decisions that more closely align with preserving liberties given to us in the Constitution. He was the only person on stage talking about our philosophy and thinking patterns on government as a means to improving this country (which means he wants to initiate a fundamental movement via we the people - meaning he knows where power really ought to lie) rather than talking about having the government do this or that to solve the issues.

That's just for starters.
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Last edited by emptypepsi : 05-24-2007 at 05:39 PM.
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  #9 (permalink)  
Old 05-24-2007, 05:47 PM
Think for myself Think for myself is offline
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Originally Posted by emptypepsi View Post
But you do know enough to make implicit personal insults regarding him? You allude to some "sworn affiliation" to the Libertarians, but he never made a "sworn" affiliation with the Libertarians. He got the nomination in 88 despite not having done that, which I think says a lot about his character and philosophy (as a former Libertarian, I can say that most of them are very critical of Republicans). He also only switched parties once, not "several times". The Libertarians did support him so much and still do that they openly continue to finance them of their own volition, which would indicate their affiliation with him, if anything.

Anyway, what I like about him is that when I listen to him talk I genuinely feel like I'm getting less BS than Rudy McRomney and their ass-kissing pundits. He speaks what I think on nearly every subject. He, based on his voting record, seems to make decisions that more closely align with preserving liberties given to us in the Constitution. He was the only person on stage talking about our philosophy and thinking patterns on government as a means to improving this country (which means he wants to initiate a fundamental movement via we the people - meaning he knows where power really ought to lie) rather than talking about having the government do this or that to solve the issues.

That's just for starters.

Belive you are miconstruing my intent for you opinion on Ron Paul as some form of insult. I properly forewarned you that I did not know that much about him.

As for a lifetime Libertarian, of course he is.

"Positions and Views
Ron Paul joined the Libertarian Party as a lifetime member, though he is technically a Republican member of Congress."

Ron Paul - Congresspedia
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Old 05-24-2007, 05:48 PM
Ygorl Ygorl is offline
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Originally Posted by FRYandBENDER View Post
War and Foreign Policy
The war in Iraq was sold to us with false information. The area is more dangerous now than when we entered it. We destroyed a regime hated by our direct enemies, the jihadists, and created thousands of new recruits for them. This war has cost more than 3,000 American lives, thousands of seriously wounded, and hundreds of billions of dollars. We must have new leadership in the White House to ensure this never happens again.

Both Jefferson and Washington warned us about entangling ourselves in the affairs of other nations. Today, we have troops in 130 countries. We are spread so thin that we have too few troops defending America. And now, there are new calls for a draft of our young men and women.

We can continue to fund and fight no-win police actions around the globe, or we can refocus on securing America and bring the troops home. No war should ever be fought without a declaration of war voted upon by the Congress, as required by the Constitution.

Under no circumstances should the U.S. again go to war as the result of a resolution that comes from an unelected, foreign body, such as the United Nations.

Border Security and Immigration Reform

The talk must stop. We must secure our borders now. A nation without secure borders is no nation at all. It makes no sense to fight terrorists abroad when our own front door is left unlocked. This is my six point plan:

1. Physically secure our borders and coastlines. We must do whatever it takes to control entry into our country before we undertake complicated immigration reform proposals.
2. Enforce visa rules. Immigration officials must track visa holders and deport anyone who overstays their visa or otherwise violates U.S. law. This is especially important when we recall that a number of 9/11 terrorists had expired visas.
3. No amnesty. Estimates suggest that 10 to 20 million people are in our country illegally. That’s a lot of people to reward for breaking our laws.
4. No welfare for illegal aliens. Americans have welcomed immigrants who seek opportunity, work hard, and play by the rules. But taxpayers should not pay for illegal immigrants who use hospitals, clinics, schools, roads, and social services.
5. End birthright citizenship. As long as illegal immigrants know their children born here will be citizens, the incentive to enter the U.S. illegally will remain strong.
6. Pass true immigration reform. The current system is incoherent and unfair. But current reform proposals would allow up to 60 million more immigrants into our country, according to the Heritage Foundation. This is insanity. Legal immigrants from all countries should face the same rules and waiting periods.

Privacy and Personal Liberty
The biggest threat to your privacy is the government. We must drastically limit the ability of government to collect and store data regarding citizens’ personal matters.

We must stop the move toward a national ID card system. All states are preparing to issue new driver’s licenses embedded with “standard identifier” data – a national ID. A national ID with new tracking technologies means we’re heading into an Orwellian world of no privacy. I voted against the Real ID Act in March of 2005.

To date, the privacy focus has been on identity theft. It was Congress
that created this danger by mandating use of the standard identifier (currently your SSN) in the private sector. For example, banks use SSNs as customer account identifiers because the government requires it.

We must also protect medical privacy. Right now, you’re vulnerable. Under so-called "medical privacy protection" rules, insurance companies and other entities have access to your personal medical information.

Financial privacy? Right now depositing $10,000 in your local bank will generate a “suspicious activity report” to the federal government.

And then there’s the so-called Patriot Act. As originally proposed,

* Expanded the federal government's ability to use wiretaps without judicial oversight;
* Allowed nationwide search warrants non-specific to any given location, nor subject to any local judicial oversight;
* Made it far easier for the government to monitor private internet usage;
* Authorized “sneak and peek” warrants enabling federal authorities to search a person’s home, office, or personal property without that person’s knowledge; and
* Required libraries and bookstores to turn over records of books read by their patrons.


I have fought this fight for many years. I sponsored a bill to overturn the Patriot Act and have won some victories, but today the threat to your liberty and privacy is very real. We need leadership at the top that will prevent Washington from centralizing power and private data about our lives.

Property Rights and Eminent Domain
We must stop special interests from violating property rights and literally driving families from their homes, farms and ranches.

Our country’s founders would roll over in their graves if they saw the takings clause in the Fifth Amendment used to justify booting people out of their homes for the profit of private developers and tax-hungry local governments. The Supreme Court’s Kelo decision said government power could be used to condemn private homes and churches to benefit a huge pharmaceutical corporation and a large property developer.

Today, we face a new threat of widespread eminent domain actions as a result of powerful interests who want to build a NAFTA superhighway through the United States from Mexico to Canada.

We also face another danger in regulatory takings: Through excess regulation, governments deprive property owners of significant value and use of their properties – all without paying “just compensation.”

Property rights are the foundation of all rights in a free society. Without the right to own a printing press, for example, freedom of the press becomes meaningless. The next president must get federal agencies out of these schemes to deny property owners their constitutional rights to life, liberty, and property

Debt and Taxes
Working Americans like lower taxes. So do I. Lower taxes benefit all of us, creating jobs and allowing us to make more decisions for ourselves about our lives.

Whether a tax cut reduces a single mother’s payroll taxes by $40 a month or allows a business owner to save thousands in capital gains taxes and hire more employees, that tax cut is a good thing. Lower taxes allow more spending, saving, and investing which helps the economy – that means all of us.

Real conservatives have always supported low taxes and low spending.

But today, too many politicians and lobbyists are spending America into ruin. We are nine trillion dollars in debt as a nation. Our mounting government debt endangers the financial future of our children and grandchildren. If we don’t cut spending now, higher taxes and economic disaster will be in their future – and yours.

In addition, the Federal Reserve, our central bank, fosters runaway debt by increasing the money supply – making each dollar in your pocket worth less. The Fed is a private bank run by unelected officials who are not required to be open or accountable to “we the people.”

Worse, our economy and our very independence as a nation is increasingly in the hands of foreign governments such as China and Saudi Arabia, because their central banks also finance our runaway spending.

We cannot continue to allow private banks, wasteful agencies, lobbyists, corporations on welfare, and governments collecting foreign aid to dictate the size of our ballooning budget. We need a new method to prioritize our spending. It’s called the Constitution of the United States.

Ron Paul 2008

Good stuff. I like it. Maybe he can get into the race and have a chance. Or maybe he HAS. Does he have a chance against the bigger money though ?

Unfortunately, todays politics is no longer about truth and honest presentations of ideas.

No. It's more about who can afford to spend the most $$ on studying how to mold themselves to a model of public opinion. A model that their analysts will recommend appealing to.

This effect has GIVEN us politicians like george bush and bill clinton. If this effect keeps going, who knows what we'll end up with. More screwballs like these two.

Certainly no one decent or honest.
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