This is a thread following the debate that started after a few posts in the "Campaign Expenses" thread. It is basically about what you think the conditions are like for the poorer people in the U.S: what kind of social aide do they get...

My response to Perdidochas

What kind of concern do you want the poor to have for the rich. The rich have Health Insurance, lots of money...Whereas the poor are in a very difficult position so it is normal that concern be given to them.

Well if we followed your philosophy, not many people would be poor. I don't think you realize how hard it is for a poor child to succeed in life. The chances that a poor child has of becoming rich are so very small, as even if he has all the willingness to succeed in the world, he will most likely suffer from racism, poor education because public schools don't have equal quality for rich and for poor people and many other social obstacles.

I just wish you and anybody else didn't believe in these stereotypes. You should ask yourself the question of why there is more crime in poor communities. It is not because they choose it. Who on Earth would choose a "poor lifestyle"?

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"Cogito ergo sum"

Well, the rich are concerned about the poor. That is WHY it is better for the rich to be in control politically. The poor don't care about the country as a whole. They are worried about their own self-interest, not the interest of the country as a whole.

Also, in America, the truly poor have insurance. It's the lower part of the middle class (as well as those that don't want it (yes, they do exist--I had an uncle that could afford insurance, but never wanted to buy it))that doesn't have insurance.


I taught in a very rough public school for five years. It had a 80%+ free lunch rate. Every child in that school had an opportunity for a decent to good education. Most chose not to take it. The ones that did are now successful, and are no longer poor.


First, I live in the 17th poorest urban county in the country (it has the 17th highest poverty rate of urban counties in the country). I'm aware of the poor. I stand by my original statement. Much of the poor makes bad choices. As a former teacher, I KNOW that they are told the right choices--heck, I used to tell it to kids myself. They chose not to listen for whatever reason. My wife is a current teacher, and is knowledgeable about poverty (she has taken several workshops and presented on the subject). Poverty is a choice in this country. With the right attitude and wish to work, poverty can be left behind. People choose a "poor" lifestyle because it's easier initially. It's easier to get passed through school without working on schoolwork, than it is to work hard to get good grades. It's easier to go work in McDonalds than to go to junior college/ tech school. Those are choices.

Also, I have a niece who's voluntarily poor. First, in high school, despite normal IQs and normal ability, and a good background, she barely graduated, due to not doing her work and slacking off. Two things this caused: 1) the immediate fear of not graduating (she didn't know whether or not she was going to graduate until the week before; and 2) her low grades (choice) resulted in her not being eligible for a HOPE scholarship, which is a GA program that gives two years of college tuition to all with a certain GPA. So, her choices led her to not going to college. My wife and I lent her the money for one semester of college. While in that semester, instead of working hard and providing for her future, she decides to get pregnant and marries her boyfriend. Neither of them has an education, and now they have two kids living in poverty. This was their choice.

Stop feeding me the garbage that the poor don't want to be poor. Most of them make choices that will inevitably lead to it.

I think we have a big problem in this country where too many people are so in awe of the rich that they are convinced the rich are better than them.

For example, just how in HELL did Donald Trump become a celebrity?

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Not a day goes by that I don't see something that reinforces my belief that people are idiots.

The self-made rich are better than most people.

I'm sorry. Better how? Are they more moral? More giving? More educated? More pious?

Most of the self-made rich are harder working, better in business, more creative, more giving, more thrifty, and generally nice people. You don't get to the top without those characteristics.

Sure you do, but can you please provide a reference for your assertions?

Not necessarily. That's just an elitist point of view and absurd on its face when put in a general term like that.


It's also hard to know if they WERE "self-made" anyway. Better to judge the rich, poor AND middle class on an individual basis.

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Not a day goes by that I don't see something that reinforces my belief that people are idiots.

Of course it's elitist. However, elitism is justified. Do you think the Founding Fathers were a bunch of poor farmers? OF course not, they were a rich political elite. Do you think we've ever had a president who wasn't part of the elite? Of course not. The elite are superior, and not just for birth reasons--they rise to the top.

Of course, ideally, we should judge people as individuals, and I do. However, barring more specific information, stereotypes (as long as you aren't to rigid about them) are not a bad thing. As a group, it's fairly easy to categorize people and generalize. It is human nature, and it is probably essential to our survival that we can group things together in our minds.

I didn't think people asked for references on this board :-)