perdidochas

That's been my general observation on this board. Actually, the general observation of this board is that people don't change their mind even when confronted with overwhelming facts. I've given up on them. It makes no real difference.

perdidochas

They did a pretty damned good job of starting a new country. If we had just paid attention to the poor, we'd still be part of England. Great ideas are not put forward by the average person. They are put forward by great people.


Hitler used more than stereotypes--he used hundreds of years of anti-semitism.

Stereotypes are needed. They allow us to generalize, which believe it or not is a good thing.

Let's look at this from the primitive nomad point of view. I see a snake that I've never seen before. Snakes are likely to be poisonous. If I stereotype snakes as poisonous, it enables me to be cautious. If I judge each snake as an individual, I could be bitten.

here's an article about the inevitability of stereotypes. Here's one good quote from it:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stereotype_inevitability

Troianii

I would expect concern for the fair and equal treatment. There are far too many that would prefer equality of results over equality of opportunity.

Ultimately, it's fair that those that are born rich are born rich, and those that are born poor are born poor. First, it has come that way because the ancestors of the rich made better choices for themselves and their children. Second, it's what you do with what you've been given. Two people, given equal opportunity at the start, will not have the same amount of success. Whichever one has success succeeds in offering his child a great chance at success, and so the path goes on.

The only way to end this "unjust" cycle is to refuse to reward merit.



It depends on what you consider to be success. The "poor" of America include those living in poverty, but mostly those who don't. In America people with food, clothes, a roof over their head, running water, electricity, cable television, a furnished home, one or more automobiles, and still have money for other things are "living in poverty".

So, define success.




Tune in to the next episode of History's Mysteries.

emptypepsi

Being born rich does not mean you will stay rich. Being born poor does not mean you will stay that way. It depends on how you were raised and what you were taught to value. For a better explanation, go read "The Millionaire Next Door".

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baxter

Well you have a completely different perception of what poor is.
As for the definition of success, it is quite hard to describe exactly what it is but I believe a certain amount of self esteem is needed, as well as having a happy life. Generally, in materialistic countries like the U.S, this is translated by having a lot of money and gadgets.

So, basically, you're saying that being as a person's parents weren't lucky in their investments, their kids don't deserve any help to try and become "successful".

Why do you think it is normal that a very small, very rich, proportion of the population, is running the very large proportion of people who are struggling to get into this very rich proportion.

I would just like to remind everybody of what "Democracy" means: "sovereignty of the people". But thats not what we have. We have a "sovereignty of the businesses".

__________________
"Cogito ergo sum"

perdidochas

What is your perception of being poor? What do you know about the poor--are you poor or have you ever worked closely with the poor?

My opinions of the poor are based on being a high school teacher in an inner city school, BTW. I talked to kids who were on free lunch that had better cable plans than I had. I had basic cable, they had all sorts of pay channels like HBO, etc. Yet, the government paid for their lunches, despite the fact that they had a lot of luxuries. The poor in America today aren't the poor of 40 yrs ago.



One major difference between the poor and the self-made rich is attribution. The poor believe they are poor due to bad luck, etc. The self-made rich (some of whom started off poor) believe that they are rich due to hard work. Which is the better attitude? Which is more likely to make you rich? Blaming external resources or yourself for your failures?

Pretty much that has been the history of the world since it's inception.

Total bull. If we had sovereignity of business, there's no way that most of the taxes would be paid by the top percentage of people. We would have a very regressive system in that case. If we had sovereignity of business, there's no way that the environmental regulations out there would have ever passed, much less remained in place. Sure, business does have some say--it would be silly if it didn't. Business is part of the people.

baxter

Well businessmen are not stupid people. If the poor were paying more taxes than the rich, there would be a revolution (they have learnt from their royal counterparts). So too keep everybody happy and believing that it is a fair system (as you think), they make it seem like they have equal treatment to everyone else and put a lot of media coverage on how much they pay in taxes.

Could you please clarify what environmental measure the U.S has taken? They refused to ratify Kyoto. I will remind you that the U.S is the biggest polluter in the world.

__________________
"Cogito ergo sum"

perdidochas

Please show me proof that the U.S. is the biggest polluter in the world. I would like numbers, not just conjecture.

Kyoto would have done nothing to help global warming. It was a useless bit of politics designed to cripple the Western economy.

In terms of overall pollution, America is less polluted now than it was 40 yrs ago. If business had sovereignity, that would not be so. However, the people wanted cleaner air, and got it.

Air Pollution Facts

Emmanuel Goldstein

I believe China has that distinction. 16 of the 20 most polluted cities in the world.

The Epoch Times | The Most Polluted City in the World

Some more facts to chew on...

World's 10 Most Polluted Places | LiveScience

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Brother Oz

It really depends on what you mean by pollution. Do you mean greenhouse gases that go up into the atmosphere, poisons that infect the rivers and ground, toxins that float in the air, smog, or what? These things are often not related. America creates more greenhouse gases per person than anywhere else, but it's air is very clean for the most part, unlike still industrial countries like China, Russia, etc.

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... I am surprised at your insolence in writing to me at all. You know, as I know, that I bought this constituency... may God's curse light upon you and may it make your women as open and as free to the excise officers as your wives and daughters have always been to me while I have represented your scoundrel corporation.
I have the honour to be... your obliged humble servant, Anthony Henley
- MPs reply to constituent, mid 1700s