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  #31 (permalink)  
Old 05-31-2007, 04:25 PM
perdidochas perdidochas is offline
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Originally Posted by libertarian123 View Post
If murder is the unlawful killing of a human being, then abortion is not murder because it is perfectly legal.
True. Currently, I think of abortion as homicide. It SHOULD be illegal, though.

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Originally Posted by libertarian123 View Post
And if life is the issue, the baby is not alive yet.
Depends on your definition of life. I think a fertilized egg is alive.

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Originally Posted by libertarian123 View Post
Should this be extended to when people decide not to have sex?
Nope. No unique human life exists until fertilization.

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Originally Posted by libertarian123 View Post
Is that stopping a baby from being born when it has all the right to be? That is the same because both are just the potential for life, not life itself.
A fertilized egg consists of all of the DNA needed for life. Sperm and eggs alone do not.


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Originally Posted by libertarian123 View Post
And 21% of abortions are because women can't afford a baby. And more minority women had abortions than white women (49 per 1,000). That would be a lot of babies born into poverty. What would their lives be like? At least this way, the baby feels no pain and the mother can have another baby when she's ready and the mother will have a better life and so will the baby that is born. Just because you don't like abortions, you shouldn't be able to take it away from the people that need it. Don't turn your opinion into the law.
There is another alternative called adoption. There is a huge demand for infant adoptions that is not being met.
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  #32 (permalink)  
Old 05-31-2007, 04:32 PM
libertarian123 libertarian123 is offline
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But then you're just deciding when you think life begins. The supreme court decided that life begins once you are delivered from the womb so that's when human rights begins and that's when you are considered a living human being
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  #33 (permalink)  
Old 05-31-2007, 05:18 PM
Ygorl Ygorl is offline
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I'm gonna go the cheap-n-easy route here :-) Because I CAN. I'm going to take what others have said already and modify them (if I see a need) a little bit. Credits too rak, empty, web and video :-)

The War in Iraq - Increase troop levels to about 200K and fucking crush skulls for another TWO years. Get ALL media out of there and let the military do what the military does. Murder murderers. After we get done killing the terrorist/insurgents/murderers the IDF takes over and secures the area so their is no backfilling. If they fuck that up then they're screwed. We leave and they can go back to killing each other forever and clean THEMSELVES up with endless genocide.

Illegal Immigration - After the year of carnage in Iraq ......mobilize the NG, and deport ALL those that are illegal. Every single rotten ONE of them. Then tighten the border and streamline immigration processes and acceptance but maintain the fact that no one illegal gets in the country anymore and NO free loads ever again. A country that wants to survive, cannot ALLOW itself to be invaded by hoardes of people from foreign nations no matter HOW one twists it to make it seem "logical" and "healthy". A Guest Worker Program would be up for discussion so long as the workers in question apply outside of the United States (yes, that includes those already here). Up for discussion AFTER we've cleaned the CURRENT mess we've created for ourselves.

Social Security - No change, IMO this is an issue you can not win on, I myself feel I will get jack shit when I'm of age (am 39 now (me to)) and I think most in my age bracket have that idea in their minds (yup, FDR's "new - socialist - deal". It's going to kill itself as most socialist deals DO). Take care of those now and worry about the short fall later (shitty attitude but this one is too much of an issue that would take away from the important shit). It's too early to try to change it. Until it REALLY breaks beyond repair, people won't accept any fiddling with it IMO.

Public Education - I believe this is an area with which the United States must always leave room with adequate funding. However, if children are not raised to value education, there is little that the government can do to curb it. The problems in education lie on the shoulders of society. Which brings up our degrading society. Can ANYTHING be done to slow, or even reverse this process ? Maybe do something to bring attention to the public, the many different aspects of, what looks like a society in the beginning stages of decline and get everyone thinking about what we all can do to slow or reverse it.

Gay Marriage - Sign a bill into law for Civil Unions nation wide for alternative marriages. Marriage is sacred to 60% + of the USA thus the majority doenst want gay marriage.......BUT....everyone deserves the right to have the benefits and after death benefits of a relationship. Its a compromise, one I doubt the Gay/Lesbian community would accept for its more of an acceptance thing for them than a legal thing. Civil Unions gives them what they need and makes this issue so trivial it will go the fuck away.

Abortion - NO Change.....AM pro Choice even though i think Abortion is murder, a copout and fucking abhorant....its not my business Roe VS Wade stays in effect

Universal healthcare - I am not for Government regulated Universal Healthcare. A persons has the right to life, and with such a right comes the responsibility to that life. Just as Pro-Choice advocates call for "the right for a person to control their body", they should hold themselves to the same standard WRT their own personal healthcare and/or medical expenses. That means, if you smoke two packs a day and go binge drinking every weekend, don't ask me to foot the bill for your Chronic Liver Failure and Emphysema.

Environmental Policy - A packaging waste reduction policy of working with companies to arrive at a standard of product packaging material that makes recycling easier and reduces packaging waste including everything from Electronics stores to the Supermarket. This would also deal with Junk Mail in regards to discouraging mailing of AOL CDs or similiar things that are harder to recycle then paper waste. The ideal result would be that most of what gets picked up on the curbside is being recycled instead of going into landfills. More research to green technology. Have heard that current funding levels are a joke. Would try to find ways to make it cheaper to use home solar panels.

Minimum Wage - Let the states determine minimum wage.
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  #34 (permalink)  
Old 05-31-2007, 05:46 PM
Ygorl Ygorl is offline
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Originally Posted by libertarian123 View Post
But then you're just deciding when you think life begins. The supreme court decided that life begins once you are delivered from the womb so that's when human rights begins and that's when you are considered a living human being
Yes, the supreme court decided this.

The supreme court showed very poor judgement in this case.

Because the supreme court showed poor judgement, doesn't force the rest of societies members to make poor judgements.

Climbing from a cunt does not magically make one human. How utterly asinine.
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  #35 (permalink)  
Old 06-01-2007, 07:04 AM
perdidochas perdidochas is offline
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Originally Posted by libertarian123 View Post
But then you're just deciding when you think life begins. The supreme court decided that life begins once you are delivered from the womb so that's when human rights begins and that's when you are considered a living human being
Actually, the Supreme Court said that a fetus had rights once it reached "viability." That is why Roe v. Wade pretty much just applies to the first trimester.

In terms of my view of when life begins, I look at it logically (and as is the root of our system) with any errors being to the side of protecting life. The only non-arbitrary point at which to decide a human life begins is at the moment of fertilization. At that point a unique set of complete human DNA is formed. Before that point, there is no way you could view the haploid DNA as complete human life.
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A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.
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  #36 (permalink)  
Old 06-01-2007, 06:33 PM
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J.Locke777 J.Locke777 is offline
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Abortion: I would turn this into a regulated medical practice. It would be up to the states to decide if they allowed it or not but the ones that do should have these limitations. 1) Abortion will not be an alternitive to birth Control. 2) an abortion can only be given if the life of the mother is at risk. 3) in cases of rape, the female should just take the morning after pill and avoid the situation all together.
I would encourage adoption over abortion any day, but i understand how many females wish to choose for themselves.

War on Terror: The first step is to begin paying off the massive debt this war has caused. The WOT is the first one ever to be paid for on credit. I would start a WarBond campain similer to what was done in WWII and I would encourage competitive war time industry. Not giving out big contracts to individual companies. Then I would prepose a plan to withdraw troops within 2 years. Democracy cannot be spread by the barrel of a gun. I would put pressure on the Iraqi government by setting dates for certain benchmarks to be required to be met. once they vote to send us home, i would tie up the loose ends and bring our boys and girls home that month.
Further, I would prepose a UN trade embargo on Iran and North Korea. I would try to make it so their economies won't be able to function if they continue down their path toward realizing Nuclear Ambitions.

Global Warming: I would divert the money we spend on BIG OIL and put it to finding and developing a clean, alternitive fuel source that can be massed produced at a low cost. By ending the relationship with BIG OIL, the car companies would find it to their advantage to develope cars that run on alternitive fuels at a lower cost than what cars sell for now. once that is achieved, i would increase the tax for owning a gasoline powered car and give tax incentives for those who have cars that run on electricity or hydrogen.

Immigration: I would create a National registry of immigrants from all countries. If we find a person who is here illigally, we deport them and send them to the back of the immigration line. I would operate on the "three strikes you're out" rule. here are the punishments for illigal citizens
1st time) You are put on a watch list, deported, and made to stand in the line like eveyone else.
2nd time) You are fined, you're home country is fined, and you are deported again
3rd time) You are put on an international black-list, your home country is fined a larger amount, and you will be unable to get a job in any country but the one you are from.

Here are the punishments i would have for companies and buisnesses caught employing an illegal immigrant:
1) Company is fined $100 for every illegal immigrant they employ
2) Company is fined $500 for every illegal immigrant they employ and the person in-charge of the hiring is fined $100 and loses their job.
3) the company's management or person in-charge of the hiring is fined $500, given 2months jail time, and loses their job.

Public Schools: NCLB is repealed because it holds our bright students back, current affairs would be mandatory for all highschools to offer as an elective. and teachers would be given an increase in salary by 25% for those who have worked in the education field for 5 years. same core classes (History, English, Math, and Science) up to 10th grade and then only math and Science would be mandatory).

Drug War: None of the current illegal drugs would be leagalized. Alcolhol would be lowered to 18.

Guantanimo Bay: I would expand it. It is a POW camp and POWs have no rights other than those stated by the Geneva Convention. Torture would be unacceptable, but rougher methods than what the local police use would be okay. I would also have a spy ring inside it to find out information spoken between the prisoners.

Social Security: Done away with. I'd give a full refund to those who put money into it and have people put their money in a savings account. after that, it's up to individual companies to have pension and retirement plans.

That pretty much sums up my political beliefs. For the ones I didn't talk about, im not informed enough on the issue.
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  #37 (permalink)  
Old 06-01-2007, 08:03 PM
Justin Hardcastle Justin Hardcastle is offline
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The War in Iraq - Add a lot more troops to eliminate the insurgency and then pull them out of there quickly. I would also start closing down many of our bases on foreign soil and bring our soldiers back here to the U.S. I do not believe it is our duty to police the world.

Illegal Immigration - Increase fines and add jail time to employers who knowingly hire illegal aliens. Cut all public welfare to illegal aliens and eliminate anchor babies by repealing the law that says you are automatically a citizen by being born here. This will send them home on their own without the need for deportation.

Social Security - Eliminate it

Public Education - Repeal NCLB. Get the Federal Government completely out of education. Leave that to the states.

Gun Control - The Second Amendment is pretty clear that the right to bear arms shall not be infringed

Marijuana Legalization - I support it

Environmental Policy - Drill on our own shores and land which are currently off limits to get off depending on enemy states for oil needs.

Minimum Wage - Abolish it

Abortion - Until Roe is overturned, there is little a President can do. In my opinion, Roe should be overturned and the matter should be left to the states to regulate abortion how they see fit.
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  #38 (permalink)  
Old 06-02-2007, 01:17 PM
Poncho Poncho is offline
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This is my first post on this forum. Howdy! This isn't the most well-written paper (since I'm almost constantly distracted while I'm writing it), but it's a basic idea of where I stand.


The War in Iraq: We need to change course. We aren't going to win if keep going the way we're going, and withdrawl could lead to anarchy in the country. We have to have both Conservative and Liberal solutions put into place. On the Right-wing side, we need to increase the number of troops we have in Iraq, and, more then likely, we'll have to prop up some short-term dictators to bypass the red tape to get rid of the insurgents and foreign agents. On the Left Side, we need a new President, and we need it as soon as possible. The world doesn't trust Bush, with good reason. We need the world to help us on this, so we have to get Dubya out of the scene. We have to turn Iraq into a Confederacy. They'll share the oil and the major cities, but otherwise, the Shia, the Sunni, and the Kurds will be given the right to self-government. We have to pump up our economics and our diplomacy. Once the country is secure, we have to make sure that the transition to democracy is done with a little common-sense.

Illegal Immigration: We have to do four things-1) We need a program of working amnesty for illegals already living here, allowing them to take up either legal citizenship or temporary worker status; 2) We need to institute a guest worker program; 3) We need to reform our immigration system, including cleaning up the bureaucratic system and busting the citizenship cap; and 4) We need to bulk up boarder defence, big time. There are other points, as well. For instance, support of international economic development. If they've got good jobs south of the boarder, they won't feel the need to travel north, will they?

Social Security: Take Social Security off-budget, and keep it fully funded. We are allowed to "raid" SS for other projects. We have to stop that program immediantly. Privitization is not the solution. We've got to make SS taxation and distribution progressive: Bill Gates doesn't need the SS check, and he can afford to pay more. Also, help people set up IRAs, as a suppliment to SS.

Public Education: Teachers, Students, and Local Communities know better then bureaucrats about how the education system should be run. I believe that power should come from the people actually involved. We need to get rid of the standardized testing, because bureaucrats drawing false lines in the sand is not an education system. We need to triple our funding for education, on the local, state, and federal level, and leave the spending power in the hands of the people who use it.

Gun Control: The 2nd Amendment says that "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed." The words, "well-regulated," are directly in the text. Keeping certain guns off the streets, keeping some people from owning guns, and placing in some common-sense regulations, are not only constitutional, but sane.

Marijuana Legalization: Marijuana should be up to the individual. It's safer then tobacco, alchohal, and caffine, and we're wasting resources "fighting" it. Full legalization.

Environmental Policy: The Environment is the next big issue for the United States and the Human Race. We need a safe, green, domestic alternative energy as soon as possible, and we need to lead the fight against global warming.

Minimum Wage: We need a living wage and universal employment in this, the greatest country in the world. Everyone who works deserves to live above the poverty line. And everyone deserves to work. It will require supporting business growth and public works programs. It will require tax cuts for small businesses and federally subsidised wages. And we must do everything we can to get to that level.

Abortion: Abortions are terrible. The only cases in which an abortion should happen is in the cases of rape, incest, or when the life of the mother is in danger. That's my moral position. However, the Federal government doesn't have any reason to limit this right. The choice of an abortion is an issue between a woman, her doctor, and God. It's not one that elected officials should be making in the legislature.

Gay Marriage: The 14th Amendment protects the equal legal protections of all American citizens. Neither State governments, nor the Federal government, has any ability to ban marriage for anyone. Someone's gender should not come into account in a marriage. Marriage is a union between two consenting adults, and states have no power to regulate it.


I'm usually more articulate then this, but, as I say, I'm not quite able to focus this morning.
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  #39 (permalink)  
Old 06-10-2007, 07:41 AM
Imbroglio Imbroglio is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by emptypepsi View Post
I think it would be very interesting to hear what many members would do if they were given the position of Commander in Chief.

Please describe, as if this were your Campaign Site's "Issues" section, your view on each of the following topics (without slandering another party nor insulting anyone having to do with the topic):

The War in Iraq
Illegal Immigration
Social Security
Public Education
Gun Control
Marijuana Legalization
Environmental Policy
Minimum Wage
Abortion

Thanks, guys.
The War in Iraq must go on. I didn't support it and still don't, but if the USA's troops were to leave, the country would completely fall apart, or come under control of extremists. It is the USA's duty to fix what they started.

Gun Control: Well, a larger undercover police force to bust the black market.


That's all I'm qualified to say until further research is completed.
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  #40 (permalink)  
Old 06-12-2007, 10:12 AM
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Mover Mover is offline
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The War in Iraq -The US needs to exit Iraq as soon as responsibly possible. Certainly within 12 months. Try to work with the Iraqi governemnt to ensure a smooth transition, but the responsibility is Iraq's.

Illegal Immigration -Immigration is a necessity to economic growth. I would ease some restrictions on certain types of applicants. However, illegal immigration is just that...illegal. I believe a strong border is necessary to national security. Also, it's unreasonable to try and chase companies that hire illegals. It isn't the job of private corporations to enforce the immigration policy of the US.


Social Security - What is needed is a plan to make the system voluntary. Keep the current mess for the next 40 years on a declining basis, and let people have choices for the future. In any case, this money should no longer be treated as part of general coffers.

Public Education - I believe this is more of a community issue. Although it sounds great to have the federal government involved, the reality is that it just doesn't work. People are graduating with much less literacy than they used to.


Gun Control - "the right of the people to keep and bear Arms shall not be infringed."

Drug Legalization I don't believe in legislating morality or choice. If people want drugs, they will get them. They harm no one else, and if people abuse drugs to the point of harming others, we already have laws in place for that.

Gay Marriage, Abortion My own belief is that government should legislate neither of these issues. It really is none of their business. The government does not belong in the bedrooms of the nation. Having said that, my position is that the government should neither fund, outlaw, promote, or contemplate these issues.

Stem cell research - Government should not support things that the free market does better.

Universal healthcare - Nice idea, fundamentally impossible to fund at reasonable tax levels. People should have the availability of some basic life rescuing insurance that is funded by people who want it.


Environmental Policy - Free market solutions are available for this, although the government should try to support alternative fuels.

Minimum Wage - State issue.
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