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04-06-2008, 12:51 PM
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Conscript
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Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 44
Location: New Jersey
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Why it really doesn't matter
Which candidate is going to cut the spending? None. They are all going to increase spending from 19.5 billion (mccain) upward to over 200 billion(obama and clinton). None of them are addressing the budget issues we are facing.
Which candidate is going to solve the problems in the middle east? None. From spouting about having a plan to get us out of iraq (obama can't get us out till 2012) to saying we don't care if we have to stay there for another 100 years (mccain said this in an interview), none of them are addressing the problem. How can we combat terrorism? What we are doing now isn't saving lives. We aren't destroying the terrorist root cause. We don't negotiate/talk with terrorists, but we can go to war with them? There IS a problem, why aren't we addressing it. You can't kill ideology with a gun.
I could continue all day with showing why these candidates aren't really changing anything. They aren't going to acknowledge the problem, they are going to dance around them. They aren't going to change course, or do whats right for the people. In the long run, what really changes with these politicians?
It seems to me like becoming a politician is the perfect way to ensure you never make a difference. The time for depending on politicians to bring about change has past. Whatever political change we want to bring about has to be done by ourselves. The laws need to be changed, but voting for a politician isn't going to cut it, not in todays world. There has to be a better way, in fact, any other way, to bring about a change in this country. I see a great deal of problems, and what I don't see is a politician changing them.
I feel like going out to vote this year is like going out to decide which brand of shovel I want to dig my own grave with. Whatever I choose, I'm still digging my own grave.
This presidential election is important, at the very least, to me. It proves to me how both influential and insignificant politicians can be. Influential because they can get all this coverage, get these huge following, but so insignificant because in the long run what they do will be the same thing ever other politician did. That in reality, nothing changed. Their legacy will be the influential insignificance that corrupted the very foundations this country stands on.
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04-06-2008, 03:07 PM
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Governor General
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Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 732
Location: Rock Hill, South Carolina
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimmyFord
Which candidate is going to cut the spending? None. They are all going to increase spending from 19.5 billion (mccain) upward to over 200 billion(obama and clinton). None of them are addressing the budget issues we are facing.
Which candidate is going to solve the problems in the middle east? None. From spouting about having a plan to get us out of iraq (obama can't get us out till 2012) to saying we don't care if we have to stay there for another 100 years (mccain said this in an interview), none of them are addressing the problem. How can we combat terrorism? What we are doing now isn't saving lives. We aren't destroying the terrorist root cause. We don't negotiate/talk with terrorists, but we can go to war with them? There IS a problem, why aren't we addressing it. You can't kill ideology with a gun.
I could continue all day with showing why these candidates aren't really changing anything. They aren't going to acknowledge the problem, they are going to dance around them. They aren't going to change course, or do whats right for the people. In the long run, what really changes with these politicians?
It seems to me like becoming a politician is the perfect way to ensure you never make a difference. The time for depending on politicians to bring about change has past. Whatever political change we want to bring about has to be done by ourselves. The laws need to be changed, but voting for a politician isn't going to cut it, not in todays world. There has to be a better way, in fact, any other way, to bring about a change in this country. I see a great deal of problems, and what I don't see is a politician changing them.
I feel like going out to vote this year is like going out to decide which brand of shovel I want to dig my own grave with. Whatever I choose, I'm still digging my own grave.
This presidential election is important, at the very least, to me. It proves to me how both influential and insignificant politicians can be. Influential because they can get all this coverage, get these huge following, but so insignificant because in the long run what they do will be the same thing ever other politician did. That in reality, nothing changed. Their legacy will be the influential insignificance that corrupted the very foundations this country stands on.
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The only people to blame are the American voters who elect these people. Shitty politicians are merely a byproduct of our ignorance and poor choices.
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04-06-2008, 03:16 PM
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Conscript
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Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 44
Location: New Jersey
Country:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SamInTheSouth
The only people to blame are the American voters who elect these people. Shitty politicians are merely a byproduct of our ignorance and poor choices.
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I agree it is our own faults, but don't forget that even if we had the perfect presidential candidate, they wouldn't be able to do much. People treat the presidential election like we are choosing a dictator or something. I don't think people realize just how much power congress and the senate have.
I don't think change can come about by voting for politicians. I don't think there are enough good people in politics to fill up half of congress, the senate, and president.
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04-06-2008, 04:25 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 27
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In part it it to blame the people. But we then have to take a look beyond that and realize media outlets control accordingly to the big government, and sometimes thats what the avg. American and overally casual voter goes by. So the government in itself should take most of the blame, and its the jobs amongst the people, to awaken the other people who don't know this to try and reverse the trend. Because if a mass of people were to blame, then we would all be to blame as well for not functioning within society as we should as patriots, and awakening people to the theory of freedom and high standards we hold this country to are instilled into us, but it was nothing more than an experiment, and the tyrannical nature of humans that has prevailed all through time is doing just so. Media control, and the indoctrinations of being politically incorrect to talk about politics both stems from the very Government whose job it is to educate us... The people who are held under this, really aren't to blame while they go about their every day lives.
Last edited by WeirdJoe : 04-06-2008 at 04:34 PM.
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04-06-2008, 04:38 PM
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Conscript
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Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 44
Location: New Jersey
Country:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WeirdJoe
In part it it to blame the people. But we then have to take a look beyond that and realize media outlets control accordingly to the big government, and sometimes thats what the avg. American and overally casual voter goes by. So the government in itself should take most of the blame, and its the jobs amongst the people, to awaken the other people who don't know this to try and reverse the trend. Because if a mass of people were to blame, then we would all be to blame as well for not functioning within society as we should as patriots, and awakening people to the theory of freedom and high standards we hold this country to are instilled into us, but it was nothing more than an experiment, and the tyrannical nature of humans that has prevailed all through time is doing just so.
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Media outlets "control" nothing. People willingly follow it. Nobody forces people to fox news or CNN. People follow this stuff willingly. I'm not going to blame corporations for doing what they were made to do, make money. I'm also not going to blame human nature for some people being inherently greedy. Politics is a field of power and money. That attracts the sharks. I am not going to blame something for doing what is in its nature to do.
People follow media willingly, they vote these politicians in willingly. They make the final decision when it comes right down to it. It is the peoples faults for making the decisions they made. I blame nobody but ourselves for this.
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04-06-2008, 06:33 PM
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Governor General
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Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 653
Location: Land of Enchantment
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimmyFord
Media outlets "control" nothing...
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b.s. they are part of discourse, and discourse controls everything.
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An old Indian Air Force officer Joe Thomas actually reminded that, "while the population of the US today is approximately the same as the population of India a century ago, the British in India never numbered more than 50,000 and still ruled India. They did not rule India by force but by dominating Indian discourse. Indians fought for the British and put down rebellions. During the two world wars, millions of Indians fought as volunteers for Britain. for more...
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04-06-2008, 06:46 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimmyFord
Media outlets "control" nothing. People willingly follow it. Nobody forces people to fox news or CNN. People follow this stuff willingly. I'm not going to blame corporations for doing what they were made to do, make money. I'm also not going to blame human nature for some people being inherently greedy. Politics is a field of power and money. That attracts the sharks. I am not going to blame something for doing what is in its nature to do.
People follow media willingly, they vote these politicians in willingly. They make the final decision when it comes right down to it. It is the peoples faults for making the decisions they made. I blame nobody but ourselves for this.
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We have to all admitt that political science is just that, an applied science. And we all have to admitt too that media control and limited availiblity of choice.... true choice that portrays the truth on issues outside of the westernized versions we're all so used to that are filtered and in many cases 1/2 truth propaganda. Same could be said about our education system and so on... and to say that the government hasn't had any effect on this is just false. Not all people have a true interest or desire for politics, but vote off of the information given to them, and a lot of times people will see Obama as change, or Clinton as change as opposed to a McCain type of candidate. But proven through the years its just simply not the case... they are all united on globalization of America, and big government over stretching its bounds... hence why they are the politicians of the establishment, while even popular candidates like Ron Paul raise just as much money, not to mention more money than any candidate on both sides from the armed forces just simply get shut out and ignored... by the media.
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04-06-2008, 08:39 PM
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Conscript
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Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 44
Location: New Jersey
Country:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WeirdJoe
We have to all admitt that political science is just that, an applied science. And we all have to admitt too that media control and limited availiblity of choice.... true choice that portrays the truth on issues outside of the westernized versions we're all so used to that are filtered and in many cases 1/2 truth propaganda. Same could be said about our education system and so on... and to say that the government hasn't had any effect on this is just false.
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The government had an effect because we let them have an effect. We put them there. We put them in the position to abuse the power. Nothing happens without our permission at the end of the day. We are to blame here.
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Not all people have a true interest or desire for politics, but vote off of the information given to them, and a lot of times people will see Obama as change, or Clinton as change as opposed to a McCain type of candidate.
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The information given to them? That is the whole problem. People expect information to be spoon fed to them from a corporate owned media. How can you cry out that it is biased? This should be assumed. Any person who listens to the media news and expects it to be fair or balanced is a fool who is probably eating that trash up.
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But proven through the years its just simply not the case... they are all united on globalization of America, and big government over stretching its bounds... hence why they are the politicians of the establishment, while even popular candidates like Ron Paul raise just as much money, not to mention more money than any candidate on both sides from the armed forces just simply get shut out and ignored... by the media.
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Ron Paul didn't get ignored, a great deal of people just didn't like him. As a former Paul supporter, I realized he is just too extreme and many of his ideas would turn out bad in the long run. He got his coverage. I saw countless articles, news clips, etc. He got interviews, he got debate time, and people just didn't pick up on him.
These people on the media said he didn't have a chance, and people believed that. That is THE PEOPLES fault. Do you act surprised when a hunter shoots an animal? Do you act surprised when a known racist says he hates a person of color? No. So why are you surprised when corporate owned media puts a spin onto it that furthers their corporation? This should be obvious.
People WILLINGLY watch these news stations. People WILLINGLY take the word of people on these news stations. People WILLINGLY vote in a candidate they don't even like. How you can blame anyone BUT the people is beyond me.
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04-06-2008, 08:41 PM
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Conscript
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Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 44
Location: New Jersey
Country:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by calmObserver
b.s. they are part of discourse, and discourse controls everything.
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They ruled india because the people allowed them to rule. Once they said "no more" what happen to the british that "ruled" india? They had no choice but to leave.
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04-07-2008, 12:49 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimmyFord
Which candidate is going to cut the spending? None. They are all going to increase spending from 19.5 billion (mccain) upward to over 200 billion(obama and clinton). None of them are addressing the budget issues we are facing.
Which candidate is going to solve the problems in the middle east? None. From spouting about having a plan to get us out of iraq (obama can't get us out till 2012) to saying we don't care if we have to stay there for another 100 years (mccain said this in an interview), none of them are addressing the problem. How can we combat terrorism? What we are doing now isn't saving lives. We aren't destroying the terrorist root cause. We don't negotiate/talk with terrorists, but we can go to war with them? There IS a problem, why aren't we addressing it. You can't kill ideology with a gun.
I could continue all day with showing why these candidates aren't really changing anything. They aren't going to acknowledge the problem, they are going to dance around them. They aren't going to change course, or do whats right for the people. In the long run, what really changes with these politicians?
It seems to me like becoming a politician is the perfect way to ensure you never make a difference. The time for depending on politicians to bring about change has past. Whatever political change we want to bring about has to be done by ourselves. The laws need to be changed, but voting for a politician isn't going to cut it, not in todays world. There has to be a better way, in fact, any other way, to bring about a change in this country. I see a great deal of problems, and what I don't see is a politician changing them.
I feel like going out to vote this year is like going out to decide which brand of shovel I want to dig my own grave with. Whatever I choose, I'm still digging my own grave.
This presidential election is important, at the very least, to me. It proves to me how both influential and insignificant politicians can be. Influential because they can get all this coverage, get these huge following, but so insignificant because in the long run what they do will be the same thing ever other politician did. That in reality, nothing changed. Their legacy will be the influential insignificance that corrupted the very foundations this country stands on.
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Vote for Nader then ! He will fight against the corruption that you just
pointed out !
Remember if you feel you have to vote for the lesser of two evils and you
win, you are still supporting and giving power to Evil !!!!!
So when you get screwed over by your own evilness don't complain about it !
It's time for Americans to Bite the Bullet and clean up the mess we've
allowed the REP-DEM Monopoly to bring to America !!!
Or you can go back to supporting them and watch them bring the country
down even farther !
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