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04-06-2008, 04:47 PM
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Moderator
McCain lied about Clark, don't run from lies
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I'd say that by the standards of his times, Lincoln was the opposite of a racist. He was a liberal.
This quote you list: "I agree with Judge Douglas that he [a black] is not my equal in many respects, certainly not in color — perhaps not in intellectual and moral endowments"
They key word there is "perhaps." We've got Harvard professors arguing today that men are smarter than women and whites are smarter than blacks. 150 years ago, "perhaps" they are unequal is pretty damn good.
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04-07-2008, 07:02 PM
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Knight
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Join Date: Aug 2007
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I think their were legitimate reasons to oppose the holiday, as Shiva pointed out. Many Americans have contributed greatly to society and not been honored. Maybe McCain took exception to the fact that MLK opposed the war he sacrificed so much for.
Speaking for myself. I was living in the South at the time and working at a small radio stationed owned by someone who's ideas towards race were typical of a lot of people his age and background. I distinctly remember him saying something like, " Well, we'd better get out the watermelon.."
There were a lot of bigots and yeah, sure, MLK's race played a role both pro and con in the decision to make his birthday a national holiday. The vote was so long ago. Maybe many of the wounds from civil rights, and the Vietnam War, had not healed. A good thing there were more clear sighted people in the senate back then.
Bro
__________________
Goldwater caused nerve ends to twinge with his passion and indignation. Yet he had no handle to the problems, no program, no solution- except backward to the Bible and the God of the desert. Proud of his handsome, clean-lined family, proud of his radiant children, proud of his families war record and patriotism, he had in him neither the compassion nor the understanding to deal with the faceless newer enemies of the Digital Society -Theodor H. White from 'The Making of the President-1964'
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04-07-2008, 08:13 PM
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McCain lied about Clark, don't run from lies
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The weird thing about McCain's position is that he said he learned more, which implies that he initially had a lower opinion of MLK.
Other comments of his make it seem like he barely knew who MLK was. Something seems wrong there.
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04-08-2008, 02:33 PM
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Reeve
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 88
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McCain's background was so removed from the Black world, that he just couldn't relate. He was/is not the only white person who was/is this way. I doubt his father talk about the latest lynching or nigger BBq in the county next door like mine grandfolks did. Alot of whites in the late 50s and early 60s honestly thought the blacks had no right to bitch and should keep to their place in society. King isn't just about the blacks, but how we as a people should dream of building this nation together and benefit equally. He didn't demonize the whites like other radical blacks, but express that there are right minded whites out there, not just hooded ones. Fear and hatre is so misguided on both sides of the fence. King showed we ( black, whites and others) could reach across that gap. To said that King is just a Black leader is total misunderstanding of what he stood for. Torward the end of his life,we saw Jews,native american,wasp and other join his cause because the defending rights of Blacks were defending all american rights and the american dream. He was a american leader for change.
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04-09-2008, 06:24 PM
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Mercenary
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Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 293
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimmyFord
""I agree with Judge Douglas that he [a black] is not my equal in many respects, certainly not in color — perhaps not in intellectual and moral endowments"
Was Abraham Lincoln a Racist?
I use to have a couple book references of speeches he gave. One showed him saying in a sense, if we could ship black people back to africa without them dying (because they wouldn't know how to survive in the africa wild), then he would do so.
He believed that they were human beings, and that they shouldn't be murdered or enslaved, but he did believe they were a lesser race of humans. To me, that sounds pretty racist.
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I agree with you. I think the evidence clearly shows that Lincoln was a racist.
Lincoln was never truly fighting to end slavery. Lincoln was a tyrant fighting for his political legacy:
"The U.S. was the only country in the entire world during that time where war was associated with emancipation. The British and Spanish empires, and the French and Danish colonies all chose the peaceful route to emancipation, which occurred in Argentina, Columbia, Chile, all of Central America, Mexico, Bolivia, Uruguay, Ecuador, Peru, Venezuela, and elsewhere prior to Lincoln’s war. Brazil ended slavery peacefully after the war. Ninety-four percent of all the slaves that were brought to the Western Hemisphere were brought to these countries; about 6 percent ended up in the United States. The former group was emancipated peacefully. Lincoln never utilized his legendary political skills to do what the rest of the world did with regard to slavery, and end it peacefully."
Lincolns 'Second American Revolution' by Thomas J. DiLorenzo
And in regards to racial equality, he was a complete and total hypocrite:
"My paramount object in this struggle is to save the Union, and is not either to save or to destroy slavery. If I could save the Union without freeing any slave I would do it, and if I could save it by freeing all the slaves I would do it; and if I could save it by freeing some and leaving others alone I would also do that. What I do about slavery, and the colored race, I do because I believe it helps to save the Union; and what I forbear, I forbear because I do not believe it would help to save the Union. I shall do less whenever I shall believe what I am doing hurts the cause, and I shall do more whenever I shall believe doing more will help the cause." The Collected Works of Abraham Lincoln edited by Roy P. Basler, Volume V, "Letter to Horace Greeley" (August 22, 1862), p. 388.
"I will say then that I am not, nor ever have been in favor of bringing about in anyway the social and political equality of the white and black races - that I am not nor ever have been in favor of making voters or jurors of negroes, nor of qualifying them to hold office, nor to intermarry with white people; and I will say in addition to this that there is a physical difference between the white and black races which I believe will forever forbid the two races living together on terms of social and political equality. And inasmuch as they cannot so live, while they do remain together there must be the position of superior and inferior, and I as much as any other man am in favor of having the superior position assigned to the white race." The Collected Works of Abraham Lincoln edited by Roy P. Basler, Volume III, "Fourth Debate with Stephen A. Douglas at Charleston, Illinois" (September 18, 1858), pp. 145-146.
More at:
Sobran Column -- Abe Lincoln, White Separatist
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04-09-2008, 07:32 PM
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Conscript
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Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 44
Location: New Jersey
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Thanks Truth. I use to have links and sources, but I lost my senior paper about it some time ago.
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04-09-2008, 08:30 PM
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Knight
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 448
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimmyFord
If the worst skeletons in your closet include plagiarizing your doctoral dissertation, then I would say you did a pretty good job. Yes he also probably had affairs. The communist ties were proven false. You can thank the FOIA for that.
Why don't you take a look into Lincoln's past or better yet, the things Colombus did. Did MLK jr. actions ever result in murder or the complete erosion of countless innocent peoples rights? MLK jr. did have skeletons, but you can't even compare them to people like Lincoln or Colombus.
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The affairs he supposedly had were most likely just part of the FBI's campaigns of character assassination.
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04-14-2008, 02:07 PM
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Knight
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 412
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i find it terribly insulting for mccain to have not voted for mlk holiday and then go to where mlk was assassinated and say sorry i was wrong-WHAT A HIPOCRIT! It astounds me that he isn't getting more criticism for his action and comments--just another reason to hate hillary--obama is so busy fielding off her bashes that mccain is just floating----come on pennsylvania people--get this over with-- WE have a country to save here-quit your fighting and lets go change washington---GO OBAMA---
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04-14-2008, 02:09 PM
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Knight
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 412
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MCCAIN THE HIPPOCRIT!!!!!!!
i find it terribly insulting for mccain to have not voted for mlk holiday and then go to where mlk was assassinated and say sorry i was wrong-WHAT A HIPOCRIT! It astounds me that he isn't getting more criticism for his action and comments--just another reason to hate hillary--obama is so busy fielding off her bashes that mccain is just floating----come on pennsylvania people--get this over with-- WE have a country to save here-quit your fighting and lets go change washington---GO OBAMA---
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04-14-2008, 02:23 PM
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Mercenary
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Join Date: Apr 2008
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IMO, McCain is a part of the "old guard" that has tried to reinvent himself as a maverick over the last few election cycles.
No matter though, as he will not be relevant after November.
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