Obama ad in Indiana, McCain general election ad - Page 4 - Political Forum

Sebelius for VP, not Hillary · #31 (**permalink**) 03-31-2008, 12:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by francois60

Obama passed nothing. He joined his party and voted the way he was expected to. He took no risks, he didn't lead. He got in late, because the Democrats had already started to write the bill while he was playing footsie with McCain.

Pretty bold statement. Is it just a lie, or do you have any proof behind it?

An editor of the Washington Post wrote:

Real Ethics Reform - washingtonpost.com

Quote:

We've had our doubts about the commitment of Senate Majority Leader Harry M. Reid (D-Nev.) to a strong ethics bill; we've had our qualms about his conduct. But Mr. Reid, along with Sens. Russell Feingold (D-Wis.) and Barack Obama (D-Ill.), deserves credit for assembling and passing this package.

Quote:

Originally Posted by francois60

One would expect it in a Presidential candidate, however. If he wanted to run for President, he should have an accomplishment or three to run on. All he has is a good speech.

You asked if there is anything Obama has ever lead on. OK, well you got your answer. He lead on the ethics reform bill of 2007. Before you start lecturing about what Obama should have, I'll remind you that admitted you favored Obama over Clinton before McCain got the nomination.

tresha · #32 (**permalink**) 03-31-2008, 12:11 AM

I have to wade into this.
Obama spent years in public service long before he was elected to an office. I believe he was already a leader (in his community if nothing else) before he held any public office.
As for him keeping his head down...I don't see how him delivering a 37 minute speech on race in America can be considered "keeping his head down" or trying to avoid the topic.

Btw, WEB, yet another exellent choice for avatar and sig (?) line. I swear I almost spit my soda out.

Sebelius for VP, not Hillary · #33 (**permalink**) 03-31-2008, 12:13 AM

Yeah, even if we lose, we can still have some fun.

francois60 · #34 (**permalink**) 03-31-2008, 01:13 PM

I'll remind you that admitted you favored Obama over Clinton before McCain got the nomination.

I still do. I would have taken Obama over Huckabee and possibly Romney as well. I'll take no accomplishments over a proven lousy record any day.

But we're talking about John McCain here. He doesn't just have experience, as in he served a long time in Congress like John Kerry or Bob Dole. This guy has been at the forefront of the most important issues of our time consistently. He's paid a steep political price for his beliefs. Obama just can't match that.

Now if a voter thinks that what McCain stands for and what he's done are disagreeable, then obviously Obama is their man. I just object to the bullshit wafting up from the Obama campaign and supporters that he's a unity candidate when he's never done anything bipartisan or even disagreed with his party. Or that he's going to do this or that good thing when he's never really tried to do it before when he had the chance.

The entire legitimate case for Obama is that he's a breath of fresh air, young, energetic, honest, smart, and liberal(if you like that sort of thing). It might even be enough.

Sebelius for VP, not Hillary · #35 (**permalink**) 03-31-2008, 01:22 PM

francois, I notice that you did not reply to my question about your earlier comment that Obama did not lead in the creation and passing of the 2007 Ethics Reform Law. Are you dodging it? Do you concede that your remark was some bullshit you made up?

francois60 · #36 (**permalink**) 03-31-2008, 02:52 PM

Your Washington Post editorial gives credit to Obama that is not backed up anywhere else. He didn't even consponsor the bill and got in on it late after backing away from McCain's effort.

francois60 · #37 (**permalink**) 03-31-2008, 02:53 PM

The bill had 17 cosponsors. Obama was not one of them.

francois60 · #38 (**permalink**) 03-31-2008, 04:04 PM

BTW, MCcain was one of the 2 no votes. He didn't think the bill went far enough.

Obama talks about change, but then voted to pass an ethics reform bill that wasn't even all that good.

Sebelius for VP, not Hillary · #39 (**permalink**) 03-31-2008, 04:21 PM

Your reply focuses on information that supports your case against Obama, while ignoring information that refutes it.

Many bills in the Congress are omnibus bills that are drawn together from other bills. The 2007 Honest Leadership and Open Government Bill drew in bills introduced by Senators Feingold and Obama.

S. Res. 525 [109th]: Senate Legislative Transparency and Accountability Resolution of 2006 (GovTrack.us)
Search Results - THOMAS (Library of Congress)

S. 230: Lobbying and Ethics Reform Act of 2007 (GovTrack.us)
Search Results - THOMAS (Library of Congress)

Search Results - THOMAS (Library of Congress)

This is why in January 2006 the Speaker of the House mentioned that Obama and Harry Reid had unveiled the Ethics Reform Bill.

Press Release :: Congresswoman Nancy Pelosi, California, 8th District

Quote:

Washington, D.C. – House Democratic Leader Nancy Pelosi, Senate Democratic Leader Harry Reid, Congresswoman Louise Slaughter of New York, and Senator Barack Obama of Illinois, unveiled Democrats’ “Honest Leadership, Open Government Act,” which will restore honesty, integrity, and openness to government. Below are Pelosi’s remarks as prepared.

We see here one of Obama's amendments to the law:

S. 1: Honest Leadership and Open Government Act of 2007 (GovTrack.us)

Quote:

(41) S.Amdt. 41 by Sen. Obama [D-IL]
To require lobbyists to disclose the candidates, leadership PACs, or political parties for whom they collect or arrange contributions, and the aggregate amount of the contributions collected or arranged.
Proposed: Jan 11, 2007. Accepted: Jan 18, 2007.

It seems that Obama played a key role in the 3 year effort it took to pass this bill and give it it's most famous provisions against gifts by lobbyists, travel given by lobbyists, full disclosure of lobbyist donations, a ban on the physical access lobbyists have to Congressmen and women, and a ban on how long congressmen and women must wait before becoming lobbyists themselves.

Sebelius for VP, not Hillary · #40 (**permalink**) 03-31-2008, 04:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by francois60

BTW, MCcain was one of the 2 no votes. He didn't think the bill went far enough.

Obama talks about change, but then voted to pass an ethics reform bill that wasn't even all that good.

Well this is another pro-McCain partisan remark. The ethics reform bill is excellent. You fail to even say what the ethics bill contains, yet you denounce it only because McCain didn't sign onto it. You don't even mention specifically why McCain opposed the bill, which is again telling that your comments on this matter are based upon nothing but partisan rhetoric you tell on behalf of your favorite candidate.