francois60

I thought Obama's mssage was a great deal more importantto the ordinary workers than McCain's, who trotted out the same old stuff that others before him have trotted out, eg. "We are Americans' etc. but had little other content. Obama on the other hand gave a positive and thought provoking message.


I don't see how "we need to trade less" is a positive message.

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chicken butt

prrriiide

So tell me how this is ANY different than the rich getting the huge tax cuts under Bush on MY dime?

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francois60

Keeping your own money is a lot different from asking for someone else's.

The middle class also got tax cuts under the Bush plan, and Democrats are shamelessly pandering promising to keep those tax cuts. I notice they aren't promising to rescind the Bush spending increases either.

The Senate recently passed a resolution that would allow all of the Bush tax cuts to expire except for the 10% rate.

That means that everyone who makes more than $30,000/yr will get a tax increase. This is the Democratic plan, along with a heck of a lot more domestic spending, so vote accordingly. If you want to pay more taxes and get more social spending, it's perfectly valid to vote for it.

The only problem I have is people thinking they will be exempt from tax increases but will benefit from more social spending. That's just ignorance.

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chicken butt

prrriiide

Link?

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Tax & Spend > Borrow & Spend

I reject your reality and substitute my own.

Every feeling you've ever felt can be found in the works of Beethoven, Bruckner, Mahler, and Wagner.

francois60

Budget plans challenge Bush's tax cuts - USATODAY.com

Only the 10% bracket was kept in the Democratic budget.

I was actually incorrect. The 10% bracket is only for taxpayers with $7000 or less in taxable income. So this hits more than the middle class, it even hits the lower middle class and poor single people.

Taxes will go up across the board if Obama is elected. He voted for this budget amendment, it is what his intentions are if he becomes President.

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chicken butt

prrriiide

From the article:

I'm a married person with children. Cha-ching...

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Tax & Spend > Borrow & Spend

I reject your reality and substitute my own.

Every feeling you've ever felt can be found in the works of Beethoven, Bruckner, Mahler, and Wagner.

francois60

Yes, it also extended the tax cuts that eliminated the marriage penalty.

Your marginal rate is still going up, and you will pay more in taxes than you paid in recent years. Unless you weren't paying any(quite a possiblity if you have children and are a homeowner) in which case I have nothing nice to say about your intentions in this election.

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chicken butt

prrriiide

Oh no. I pay taxes. But government is like anything else. With GWB and his government on the cheap, we got what we paid for. A significant sector of the economy on life-support, the overall economy in shambles, massive debt, and a continuing monetary hemmorhage in Iraq. That doesn't even get into the implications of Patriot, the DoJ prying into people's lives without probable cause, the wholesale shipping of jobs to 10-cent a day wage countries, the importing of goods that aren't just substandard but downright dangerous, record gas prices, and the overall "Wal-martization" of America. If paying a slightly higher marginal rate means we get better government than we've gotten under Bush (which I think could be accomplished by a well-trained chimpanzee with a dart board), I say it's money well spent.

The argument that raising taxes will hurt the economy falls short. Clinton's tax rates were pretty damned high, yet we had an economic boom that was attributable to more than just the dot-com boom. Bush cut taxes and kept them and interest rates too low for too long, now we have a major recession heading our way.

If I could sum up the current administration in one word, it would be malfeasance.

__________________
Tax & Spend > Borrow & Spend

I reject your reality and substitute my own.

Every feeling you've ever felt can be found in the works of Beethoven, Bruckner, Mahler, and Wagner.

francois60

Clinton also cut spending by the same amount he raised taxes, and kept spending increases below the rate of economic growth for most of the rest of his Presidency. then he passed a tax cut which nearly erased the 1993 tax increase.

Obama wants to raise taxes and increase spending and cut foreign trade. How that's supposed to lead to anything other than economic disaster I don't know. As I said before, the last time such a plan was tried was under Hoover.

In any case, at least we agree that Obama will raise all our taxes. Everyone should have as much information as possible when making a decision.

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chicken butt

prrriiide

I've never heard him say he wants to cut foreign trade. He just wants to make it fair. He wawnts to make sure that what is good for the other country is also good for America and Americans, including the workers whose jobs are being sent away. Right now what we have is favorable only to the highest levels of corporations and investors. That needs to change. We need to keep foreign trade, but it needs to be fair, NOT free. And corporations need to know that simply moving jobs offshore isn't going to save them a bunch of money, because they'll take a corporate tax hit for doing it.

__________________
Tax & Spend > Borrow & Spend

I reject your reality and substitute my own.

Every feeling you've ever felt can be found in the works of Beethoven, Bruckner, Mahler, and Wagner.