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A significant slice of Hillary Clinton's supporters -- that is, moderate Democrats -- might prefer McCain over Obama, or so I speculated a few weeks back. It was a hunch based on conversations and some suggestive but hardly definitive poll numbers.
Critics of this view waved numbers showing more support for Obama than for Clinton among independents. And other polls have Obama and Clinton beating McCain in a close general election -- but Obama enjoying a slightly higher margin. What gives?
The seemingly contradictory smoke signals come from mixing up "moderate" with "independent." Moderates within the Democratic Party tend to be deficit hawks, but on social issues can range from quite progressive to somewhat conservative. They sometimes vote Republican, but when they do, it's with a heavy heart.
Independents are another matter. Both parties aggravate them. They love to send messages to various establishments and treasure candidates who say things no one else will. We all know independents who voted for both Ross Perot and Ralph Nader -- and their very different brands of politics -- because they broke the mold.
This year, libertarian Ron Paul was their guy, as was archliberal Dennis Kucinich. Last December, a laid-off worker in New Hampshire peppered John Edwards with sharp questions. I had to ask him, "Which candidate do you like?" His favorites were the Republican Paul and the Democrat Kucinich.
A recent Pew Research Center survey supports my impression. It has 20 percent of white Clinton voters saying that if their candidate does not get the Democratic nomination, they might vote for McCain. Older, lower-income and less-educated Democrats also indicated some willingness to support McCain if Obama is the candidate. These are your Reagan Democrats -- blue-collar voters who responded to the broad appeal of Ronald Reagan.
Gilbert Ray, a Democrat from Fayetteville, N.C., describes this inner conflict as follows: "There's a lot that he (McCain) believes in that I disagree with, but unfortunately Sen. Obama doesn't appear to me to have any answers to anything."
"I was young once, and I remember not delving very deep into the candidates' qualifications," he went on. "But I'm 60 now, and I'm very worried about the country, especially after eight years of G.W. Bush and his insane non-government."
This year each party has a mold-breaker out front. McCain virtually has the nomination, and Obama is neck and neck with Clinton. Independents like both McCain and Obama. As this relentless campaign wears on, however, the two candidates will seem less and less fresh and original.
For McCain to close a deal with moderate Democrats, he will have to offer comfort on certain issues. Steve Ganis, 56, of Stamford, Conn., says he likes McCain but wonders about his plans for the Supreme Court.
"My impression is that McCain would be more of a Reagan or George H.W. Bush in this matter, choosing a Sandra Day O'Connor or David Souter, who is not socially conservative," he said. McCain would have to address this matter, among others.
Recent reportage bubbled over Obama's ability to attract an overflow crowd of 10,000 to a Rhode Island rally -- twice the number that came to see Clinton in the same gymnasium a week before. Wouldn't it be something, the commentators said, if Obama prevailed in an old-school Democratic stronghold such as Rhode Island?
As it happened, Clinton handily won the primary with a 59-40 percent margin. While Obama's young crowds were jumping up and down in the gym, the Clintonian masses were sitting quietly in their suburban split-levels, rural Capes or blue-collar triple-deckers.
Lots can happen between now and November. But if Obama is the nominee, a chunk of the Democratic heartland could well be up for grabs.
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Forum Rule 3: Discuss the Issue, not your opponent.
That's definitely interesting. I don't think McCain would be any better than Reagan, though, or Bush for that matter. The McCain of eight years ago I would've voted for... the McCain of now is just an old, pompous dick who, at least taken at his current word, will just continue Bush's policies.
Good points. I wish the hell Obama had said that, instead of saying he 'admired' Reagan (or whatever he said).
Maybe that Illuminati guy was right and there is no big diff between the three current surviving candidates.
I will be an old man before I ever vote Republican.
Bro
__________________ Goldwater caused nerve ends to twinge with his passion and indignation. Yet he had no handle to the problems, no program, no solution- except backward to the Bible and the God of the desert. Proud of his handsome, clean-lined family, proud of his radiant children, proud of his families war record and patriotism, he had in him neither the compassion nor the understanding to deal with the faceless newer enemies of the Digital Society -Theodor H. White from 'The Making of the President-1964'
the McCain of now is just an old, pompous dick who, at least taken at his current word, will just continue Bush's policies.
Yeah, but how much of that is just him trying to appeal to the right winger's too. He can't win without them. And Elections are notorious for making campaign promises and breaking them less then a year later. Does any one remember "read my lips, no new taxes?" A year later and he was increasing taxes more than at any other time in recent US history.
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~John Locke
Discuss the Issue, Not the Poster
"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not everyone is entitled to their own facts"
-Sen. Daniel Patrick Moynihan
"Great thoughts speak only to the thoughtful mind, but great actions speak to all mankind."
-Teddy Roosevelt
I do like a lot of things about John McCain. However, I don't know that I would consider myself a McCain Democrat. In an Obama/McCain scenario, there is zero doubt that I would vote Obama. However, if Obama is not nominated, I may be so angry with both sides that I just write-in Obama's name in outrage. McCain would definitley have to do some selling to get my vote.
__________________ "The saddest aspect of life right now is that science gathers knowledge faster than society gathers wisdom."
Isaac Asimov
Good points. I wish the hell Obama had said that, instead of saying he 'admired' Reagan (or whatever he said).
Maybe that Illuminati guy was right and there is no big diff between the three current surviving candidates.
I will be an old man before I ever vote Republican.
Bro
I wish that so much of what you say wasn't so easily disproven.
Obama said that the Republicans were the party of ideas in Reagan's times, and that he changed the direction of the country. He didn't say he admired Reagan's policies.
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Forum Rule 3: Discuss the Issue, not your opponent.
Yeah, but how much of that is just him trying to appeal to the right winger's too. He can't win without them. And Elections are notorious for making campaign promises and breaking them less then a year later. Does any one remember "read my lips, no new taxes?" A year later and he was increasing taxes more than at any other time in recent US history.
Yeah, I realize that, but it really hate to see the "Straight Talk Express" sell out so blatantly.
I'm a temporary Zonie (here for college), so I get to hear a lot about him. Lots of Arizonans are pissed at him for selling out to the far right like he often does, but support still seems to be behind him because, despite what he says, he does keep things pretty moderate. I don't know if I trust somebody who talks one way and does the opposite, though...
I wish that so much of what you say wasn't so easily disproven.
Obama said that the Republicans were the party of ideas in Reagan's times, and that he changed the direction of the country. He didn't say he admired Reagan's policies.
Instead of getting technical, I wish you'd gotten my point. In that video, he does not exactly offer a stinging indictment of the Reagan era, as you did.
From my standpoint, I can't tell in that clip if he is a Republican or Democrat. Not that it matters, as the whole Dem primary seems to have become about personalities, not issues.
Bro
__________________ Goldwater caused nerve ends to twinge with his passion and indignation. Yet he had no handle to the problems, no program, no solution- except backward to the Bible and the God of the desert. Proud of his handsome, clean-lined family, proud of his radiant children, proud of his families war record and patriotism, he had in him neither the compassion nor the understanding to deal with the faceless newer enemies of the Digital Society -Theodor H. White from 'The Making of the President-1964'
Instead of getting technical, I wish you'd gotten my point.
So you consider your own words a mere technicality? I wouldn't even give you that. Many of your comments are completely wrong, like when you said that most young people listen to talk radio like Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity, which everyone knows is nonsense. This is another nonsense comment you are throwing out. That is the point.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Brother
In that video he does not offer a single word of criticism.
Yes, he's not totally partisan, as you wish him to be.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Brother
From my standpoint, I can't tell in that clip if he is a Republican or Democrat. Not that it matters, as the whole Dem primary seems to have become about personalities, not issues.
Bro
Then your standpoint is to look at one clip and ignore the hundreds of hours of press coverage on Barack Obama, which is a very unintelligent thing to do. Your standpoint makes no sense, which is why you come to a conclusion that is absurd.
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Forum Rule 3: Discuss the Issue, not your opponent.
So criticizing Reagan is being "totally partisan" ? Are politicians allowed to make critical comments anymore ?
If Obama wins, I hope he decides start using stronger language. I would love to support him wholeheartedly instead of casting my ballot for him as a lesser of two evils.
BTW, I did once suggest that many young people get their political ideas from talk radio. I stand by that statement.
Big Brother
__________________ Goldwater caused nerve ends to twinge with his passion and indignation. Yet he had no handle to the problems, no program, no solution- except backward to the Bible and the God of the desert. Proud of his handsome, clean-lined family, proud of his radiant children, proud of his families war record and patriotism, he had in him neither the compassion nor the understanding to deal with the faceless newer enemies of the Digital Society -Theodor H. White from 'The Making of the President-1964'
A new term in the political vernacular: McCain Democrats
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