Feminists are making a mistake backing Hillary - Political Forum

Sebelius for VP, not Hillary · #1 (**permalink**) 03-02-2008, 06:06 AM

Quote:

Drift away from Clinton frustrates many women

As they see her chances slipping, some feel old wounds: An older, more experienced woman is pushed aside to make way for a younger male colleague.

By Robin Abcarian, Los Angeles Times Staff Writer
March 2, 2008

DALLAS -- Darlene Ewing is a Democratic activist, longtime feminist and very frustrated Hillary Rodham Clinton supporter.

Like many who have dreamed of seeing a woman in the Oval Office, Ewing doesn't understand why women are drifting in ever-greater numbers away from Clinton toward her rival, Barack Obama. This trend, which has imperiled the candidacy of the woman once considered a shoo-in for her party's nomination, infuriates the frank-talking Texan.

"They're running to the rock star, to the momentum, to the excitement," said Ewing, a family law attorney who chairs the Dallas County Democratic Party. "And I am worried that if Hillary doesn't get elected, I am never going to see a woman president in my lifetime. I do think her chances are slipping away, and it [ticks] me off."

This sentiment is being expressed around the country -- in testy dinner-party conversations, around the water cooler, and in the public forum. As Clinton's shot at the nomination boils down to two contests Tuesday -- in the delegate-rich states of Texas and Ohio, where she is running neck and neck with Obama -- many women who support the New York senator are angered and saddened by their sisters' desertion to the other side.

Old-school feminists have lined up against each other. Some chapters of the National Organization for Women are supporting Clinton; others are for Obama. There have been arguments about which candidate is more pro-choice. For some women, the rise of Obama rips open a persistent wound: an older, more experienced woman is pushed aside for a younger male colleague.

One of the most impassioned cris de coeur came from feminist poet and novelist Robin Morgan, 67 in an essay that became something of a cyberspace sensation after she posted it last month on the Women's Media Center website (and it was forwarded by many people, including Chelsea Clinton). Morgan decried the casual acceptance of sexism on the campaign trail this season -- from the two young men who shouted "Iron my shirt!" at Clinton to the Hillary-themed nutcrackers available in airport gift shops.

But Morgan reserved her greatest ire for women who decline to support Clinton "while wringing their hands because Hillary isn't as likable as they've been warned they must be. . . . Grow the hell up. She is not running for Ms. Perfect-pure-queen-icon of the feminist movement. She's running to be president of the United States." Recent polls support the suspicion of many women that theirs is a gender divided. Last week's Los Angeles Times/Bloomberg poll found Clinton's solid support from women to be dwindling. Women are now evenly divided between the two Democratic candidates, though Clinton still enjoys a sizable advantage among women 65 and older, who prefer her three-to-one over Obama.

Gloria Steinem, a Clinton supporter, weighed in with an essay in the New York Times in which she claimed that, in public and private spheres alike, women have a tougher time than African American men. "Gender," wrote Steinem, "is probably the most restricting force in American life, whether the question is who must be in the kitchen or who could be in the White House. . . . Black men were given the vote a half-century before women of any race were allowed to mark a ballot and generally have ascended to positions of power . . . before any women."

Even "Saturday Night Live" got into the act when guest host Tina Fey expressed her outrage that feminists have deserted Clinton. "We have our first serious female presidential candidate in Hillary Clinton," said Fey. "And yet women have come so far as feminists that they don't feel obligated to vote for a candidate just because she is a woman. Women today feel perfectly free to make whatever choice Oprah tells them to."

Many women who support Obama say they were torn, but are unapologetic about their choice. For many, the decision turns on one vote cast by Clinton in 2002: for the bill authorizing President Bush to invade Iraq.

Earlier this year, a group calling itself "New York Feminists for Peace and Barack Obama," circulated an online petition that was a nuanced endorsement of the Illinois senator. It was so popular that the words "New York" were dropped from the name, and the effort went national.

"Choosing to support Senator Obama was not an easy decision because electing a woman president would be a cause for celebration in itself and because we deplore the sexist attacks against Senator Clinton that have circulated in the media," read the petition. "However, we also recognize that the election of Barack Obama would be another historic achievement and that his support for gender equality has been unwavering."

Katha Pollitt, an author and columnist for the Nation, is one of the signers.

"I think Hillary has been the target of a great big set of double standards, and in the end, I do know people who are supporting her because of the misogynistic attacks against her," Pollitt said.

But she took issue with Steinem's comparison.

"Even if it were true that white women were more oppressed than black men" -- as Steinem suggested -- "that still doesn't mean you should vote for Hillary Clinton," Pollitt said. "It might mean you should fight for better enforcement of anti-sex-discrimination rules, but it doesn't mean you should vote for the candidate most likely to wage a war. "

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Wow, where to begin? Some of these comments are so stupid. Blacks were given the vote before white women? Depends how ignorant you are. Ever heard of Jim Cro, grandfather clauses, poll taxes and the KKK? Between Reconstruction and the Civil Rights Act of 1964, there were practically no elected black officials and blacks could not vote. Southern whites wouldn't let them vote. Don't be absurd.

As for the comment about the Presidency isn't a popularity contest, actually it is. How do you think a popularity contest is decided by? By votes in an election. The Presidency is to some extent a popularity contest, and Hillary sucks at it.

Third, this is a total double standard. Why do women get to run on how we need a woman in the White House? What if someone said, we need a Latino in the White House? How would that play over?

Lastly, why in the hell did women foist this despicable candidate on us? Give us a decent female candidate and we can talk about voting for her. With Hillary getting a 47% unfavorable rating from the American public for the past year and a half, she never had a chance anyway. It's highly likely that there will be a woman candidate, so just give us a good female candidate next time. If Hillary didn't have such a high unfavorable rating, then she would have won the nomination and the general election.

DHub · #2 (**permalink**) 03-02-2008, 07:32 AM

well, lol, on THIS point, du bois, we're in agreement

A woman for President? certainly, why the hell not?

THAT woman? umm, thank you, no!

i would be curious as to why feminists WOULD be supporting a person that set out to destroy the reputations of women that accused a powerful and connected man of sexual harassment, though?

hmmm, a slight odor of the hypocritical in THAT stance, n'est ce pas?

Calvin-X · #3 (**permalink**) 03-02-2008, 07:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DHub

well, lol, on THIS point, du bois, we're in agreement

A woman for President? certainly, why the hell not?

THAT woman? umm, thank you, no!

i would be curious as to why feminists WOULD be supporting a person that set out to destroy the reputations of women that accused a powerful and connected man of sexual harassment, though?

hmmm, a slight odor of the hypocritical in THAT stance, n'est ce pas?

IMO when feminists decided to back the powerful and connected man as opposed to his victims, that is the day feminism died.

Slight odor? Yeah, like the smell of the ocean on the beach!

francois60 · #4 (**permalink**) 03-02-2008, 12:59 PM

I'm not sure that feminism is advanced by having the first female President be someone whose claim to fame is that her husband was President.

Plenty of female governors who made their names on their own to be the first.

Izzibeth · #5 (**permalink**) 03-02-2008, 02:37 PM

There are plenty of women who will vote for a woman simply because she is the female candidate regardless of her views. Just as there are many black people who will vote for Obama and, if there were a latino running, plenty of latinos who would vote for that person.
That's what happens when minorities are finally given a like-candidate to vote for.
But again... you will always find those people. There are plenty of feminists who see that Clinton is not the best candidate but are happy to see a woman running for nothing more than the fact that having a woman run successfully (not necessarily win) opens the door for other women. That doesn't mean that they will vote for her. I count myself among them. I am happy to see Clinton run. I wish she were someone else who was more qualified and better suited for the job but... she's running. Good for her. Maybe in 4 years someone better will come along. Meanwhile, there are going to be those feminists (men and women) who will vote for her just for the principle of the thing. And honestly... we need them to do so just to show that a woman can be just as successful in this as a man.
Just think if no one was for her. She would simply fade away as a failure... another woman to try to do a man's job (in some peoples' eyes). If she ran horribly and got 2% of the votes then it would not at all be inspiring for others to follow in her footsteps. Don't get me wrong. I hope she loses. But she's done well enough that we can see more of this in the future with other women and non-white candidates.

Sebelius for VP, not Hillary · #6 (**permalink**) 03-02-2008, 03:37 PM

Gender is not even an issue for me. My radar doesn't even pick up gender. If anything, I would be MORE INCLINED to vote for a female president, just so that we could have a first female president. I agree that women are voting for Hillary the way some blacks are voting for Obama.

francois60 · #7 (**permalink**) 03-02-2008, 04:24 PM

Seems to me that blacks didn't automatically support Obama. Blacks backed up Obama because the white establishment started to gang up on him.

Sebelius for VP, not Hillary · #8 (**permalink**) 03-02-2008, 04:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by francois60

Seems to me that blacks didn't automatically support Obama. Blacks backed up Obama because the white establishment started to gang up on him.

It was a combination of a lot of things, IMO. I agree that it was not automatic, and you still have a lot of hold outs among black superdelegates supporting HRC.

Izzibeth · #9 (**permalink**) 03-02-2008, 04:53 PM

No, it's not automatic for everyone. Same can be said for Hillary. I'm not voting for her. I'm a woman and consider myself a feminist. In fact, if it comes down to a race between Clinton or McCain.. I simply won't vote that's how much I won't vote for her.

I don't really see gender as an issue in this election unless it's MADE an issue. Like I said, I wouldn't vote for Clinton simply because she's a woman (she or any other woman wouldn't get my vote just for sharing physiological similarities with me) but.. lots of people out there do see gender and WANT to see gender. We needed Clinton to do well because she needed to show that women can compete (and I don't mean to sound as if people are ONLY voting for her cuz she's a woman because there are plenty of people who agree with her policies first and foremost). She has shown that. Now women can get into the races. Even if she doesn't win (and I hope she doesn't) she has made history for women in America.

Sebelius for VP, not Hillary · #10 (**permalink**) 03-02-2008, 05:01 PM

What women COULD be the next candidate for President in the next election? You guys know the two I usually mention.

Tammy Duckworth

Looks like my favorite, Tammy Duckworth is out. I didn't know she was born in Thailand.

Tammy Duckworth - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Claire McCaskill

I like McCaskill although, she's not terribly photogenic in this picture.