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Old 02-18-2008, 08:56 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Much of what you say is true. At first glance, all of it appears true.

But what you left out was what had happened in Iran shortly prior to the snapping of that picture.

The Iranian Revolution had taken place and the Ayatollah Khomeini was intent on expanding the religion, expanding Iran's territory and influence and creating a Caliphate.

Saddam wasn't a radical fundamentalist but he was an Iraqi who had risen to prominence and power. Supporting him to prevent Iranian hegemony in the 1980's until 2003 was the same as our efforts to support Malicki to prevent Iranian hegemony today.

Islamism is a danger to freedom around the world and the Islamists are using any and every means necessary to gain total mastery of mankind. The more ground they gain means the less freedom there is in the world.

If they were to continue gaining ground until most of the smaller nations in the world were Islamist, at some point all free peoples would recognize the situation and they would ask themselves, "why didn't we do more to stop them when the price in blood and treasure was relatively small?"

And the answer would be?
caliphate won't work without the Sunni's cooperating, Iran has never had the power, nor has it under the current regime really made and serious moves towards such

mossedegh was removed and pahlavi installed and oil industry re-opened to outsiders, pahlavi was overthrown and oil industry re-nationailzed, Iran has been in the US shit list ever since
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Old 02-18-2008, 09:18 PM   #22 (permalink)
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caliphate won't work without the Sunni's cooperating, Iran has never had the power, nor has it under the current regime really made and serious moves towards such

mossedegh was removed and pahlavi installed and oil industry re-opened to outsiders, pahlavi was overthrown and oil industry re-nationailzed, Iran has been in the US shit list ever since


The Iran-Iraq War, 1980-1988 - Google Book Search
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Old 02-18-2008, 09:25 PM   #23 (permalink)
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NO! NO! NO! Don't go dragging James Bond into this...
For you.

45 Years of Bondage: Every Single James Bond Credit Sequence Ever

45 Years of Bondage: Every Single James Bond Credit Sequence Ever - Cinematical

Here's just one of them. Goldfinger.

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Old 02-18-2008, 09:36 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Here's an even better one.

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Old 02-18-2008, 09:42 PM   #25 (permalink)
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For you.

45 Years of Bondage: Every Single James Bond Credit Sequence Ever
All is forgiven...carry on.
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Old 02-18-2008, 09:48 PM   #26 (permalink)
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All is forgiven...carry on.


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Old 02-18-2008, 09:51 PM   #27 (permalink)
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caliphate = head of state of all muslims

Shia belief

Shi'a Muslims disagree with the Sunni practice of elections. They believe that Muhammad had given many indications that he considered ˤAlī ibn Abī Talib, his cousin and son-in-law, as his divinely chosen successor making a majority vote or elections irrelevant. They say that Abū Bakr seized power by threat[citation needed] against Ali and that the 3 caliphs before ˤAlī were usurpers. ˤAlī and his descendants are believed to have been the only proper leaders, or imams regardless of Democracy and what the majority wanted, in the Shia's point of view.

Main articles: Succession to Muhammad and Shi'a

In the absence of a Caliphate headed by their Imams, some Shia believe that the system of Islamic government based on Vilayat-e Faqih, where an Islamic jurist or faqih rules Muslims, suffices. However this idea, developed by the Aytollah Khomeini and established in Iran, is not universally accepted among Shia.

Main article: Hokumat-e Islami : Velayat-e faqih (book by Khomeini)

[edit] Sunni belief

Contrary to the Shia, Sunni Muslims believe that the caliph has always been a merely temporal political ruler, appointed to rule within the bounds of Islamic law (Shariah), and not necessarily the most qualified in Islamic law. The job of adjudicating orthodoxy and Islamic law (Shariah) was left to Islamic lawyers, judiciary, or specialists individually termed as Mujtahids and collectively named the Ulema. The first four caliphs are called the Rashidun meaning the Rightly Guided Caliphs, because they are believed to have followed the Qur'an and the sunnah (example) of Muhammad in all things.

that's from wikipedia...............

to my knowledge other than terrorists showing interest in this from time to time most muslim countries have made no real attempts at organizing the many muslim states under a caliphate, its been dead since 1924............doubt all the ego's involved would go for it either, Iran would have had to project power it never had to do it by force and that too is a violation of the idea of a caliphate, and not even all the Shia support the Ayatollah's views nor do very many of the other ayatollahs what few are left

here's khomeni's book ---> Hokumat-e Islami : Velayat-e faqih (book by Khomeini) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


sorry, don't see it being very realistic, uniting all muslims is a pretty tall task especially when the Sunni and Shia and other factions have some fundamental disagreements about some issues they consider important

take over a few states and make a bigger shia state, sure, it could happen, wouldn't be a caliphate though and the Sunni would not be impressed, even Al Queada wouldn't go for that. Gonna be interesting when Al Queada goes after Iran at some point, that's due to happen.
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Old 02-18-2008, 11:24 PM   #28 (permalink)
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As I mentioned previously, understanding the significance of what goes on is another story.

I'd expect a moderator to know Saddam's history to that point as well as the geo-political scenario that existed with regard to the USA and the main players in the Middle East at that time so that the context of that meeting between Rummy and Saddam made sense at the time, as I'm sure you do understand.


And it's not that simply explained, unless you like kiddee movies where all the relationships, conflicts and resolutions are one dimensional.
SO what your saying is that political and international relationships change.

Ortega said "revolution" and you automatically think bad.......

let me remind you that the U.S.A. started with a revolution!!!!

IMO: ortega meant that a new america was in the wind.....an america that doesn't attack other nations for no reason!!!!!
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Old 02-19-2008, 12:03 AM   #29 (permalink)
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caliphate = head of state of all muslims

Shia belief

Shi'a Muslims disagree with the Sunni practice of elections. They believe that Muhammad had given many indications that he considered ˤAlī ibn Abī Talib, his cousin and son-in-law, as his divinely chosen successor making a majority vote or elections irrelevant. They say that Abū Bakr seized power by threat[citation needed] against Ali and that the 3 caliphs before ˤAlī were usurpers. ˤAlī and his descendants are believed to have been the only proper leaders, or imams regardless of Democracy and what the majority wanted, in the Shia's point of view.

Main articles: Succession to Muhammad and Shi'a

In the absence of a Caliphate headed by their Imams, some Shia believe that the system of Islamic government based on Vilayat-e Faqih, where an Islamic jurist or faqih rules Muslims, suffices. However this idea, developed by the Aytollah Khomeini and established in Iran, is not universally accepted among Shia.

Main article: Hokumat-e Islami : Velayat-e faqih (book by Khomeini)

[edit] Sunni belief

Contrary to the Shia, Sunni Muslims believe that the caliph has always been a merely temporal political ruler, appointed to rule within the bounds of Islamic law (Shariah), and not necessarily the most qualified in Islamic law. The job of adjudicating orthodoxy and Islamic law (Shariah) was left to Islamic lawyers, judiciary, or specialists individually termed as Mujtahids and collectively named the Ulema. The first four caliphs are called the Rashidun meaning the Rightly Guided Caliphs, because they are believed to have followed the Qur'an and the sunnah (example) of Muhammad in all things.

that's from wikipedia...............

to my knowledge other than terrorists showing interest in this from time to time most muslim countries have made no real attempts at organizing the many muslim states under a caliphate, its been dead since 1924............doubt all the ego's involved would go for it either, Iran would have had to project power it never had to do it by force and that too is a violation of the idea of a caliphate, and not even all the Shia support the Ayatollah's views nor do very many of the other ayatollahs what few are left

here's khomeni's book ---> Hokumat-e Islami : Velayat-e faqih (book by Khomeini) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


sorry, don't see it being very realistic, uniting all muslims is a pretty tall task especially when the Sunni and Shia and other factions have some fundamental disagreements about some issues they consider important

take over a few states and make a bigger shia state, sure, it could happen, wouldn't be a caliphate though and the Sunni would not be impressed, even Al Queada wouldn't go for that. Gonna be interesting when Al Queada goes after Iran at some point, that's due to happen.
No matter what we do or don't think is reasonable that is what Iran was attempting then and that is what Iran is attempting now.

Total mastery of the region.

Hezbollah. Syria. Their exporting terrorism. Supporting the war against Sunnis and the Iraqi Government and against Coalition forces in Iraq and with Israel and Hezbollah in 2006. Their attempt to develop nuclear weapons. Assassinating the politicians in Lebanon.

All for one reason.
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Old 02-19-2008, 12:26 AM   #30 (permalink)
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SO what your saying is that political and international relationships change.

Ortega said "revolution" and you automatically think bad.......

let me remind you that the U.S.A. started with a revolution!!!!

IMO: ortega meant that a new america was in the wind.....an america that doesn't attack other nations for no reason!!!!!
That may be ALL he meant. But why do most observers read more into it than that?

Same reason half of America are wrong about the war in Iraq?
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