Why Obama's message resonates - Political Forum

prrriiide · 02-14-2008, 08:37 AM

Change is what you hear most from Obama. But that in and of itself isn't what is leading people to look to him as the candidate of choice.

IMO, what is leading this is that he has tapped into a frustration and a visceral feeling that enough is enough. His speeches are always positive and upbeat. In the vid that WEB posted of Michelle Obama in another thread, she put it to words very eloquently when she spoke of people lifting the veil of impossibility. People are tired of being told what they can't do. They are tired of being put into the neat little box of expectations that we all face every day. They are tired of being told what their government can't and/or won't do.

In their individual daily lives, people feel helpless in many different situations. Individually, they are helpless to change the price of gas. They are helpless to change the recalcitrance of their insurance carrier. There is a feeling that we deserve better than we have received. That those with which we have entrusted our rights and our livlihoods care little for either. That though we work to improve our lot that the deck is stacked against us. And just when we figure out how to play the cards we're dealt, the deck is re-shuffled.

But the positive message resonates. The message that together, we do deserve better, and together we can make a difference. That we don't have to accept less than we deserve as human beings and as Americans.

Americans have been told that we can't for so long, the message of "yes, we can" is like an oasis in a desert. People want to believe that their government can be an agent of good. People want to know that even as our country merges into the global society, our individual worth is not diminished. People want to know that their elected leaders have not just a vision of America, but a positive vision of America.

I think this is where there are similarities between Obama and Reagan. Obama got blasted for the comparison, but i think it's an appropriate one in that Reagan also had an unwavering optimism and belief in what was possible for America and Americans. Even though they are from opposite ends of the political spectrum, there is a common ground between the two.

People want to believe in themselves. They want to know that someone else believes in them. Even if it's someone that they have never met and will never meet. It's enough that someone is saying that there is a better way; that as an individual, you are worth believing in.

People also want to believe in something greater than themselves. They want to believe that their government is there for the good of us all. But over the years, that belief has proved misplaced. Now comes someone that is trying to show that trusting their elected leaders to act for the good of the most people should be rewarded by having the expectations of that trust met.

Obama has lightning in a bottle and a tiger by the tail. I only hope that when he is elected, he will be able to carry his positive message through to meaningful action without the same-old same-old politics of can't and won't serving to stymie the groundswell of positive action that is being generated by this campaign.

FRYandBENDER · 02-14-2008, 09:30 AM

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Originally Posted by prrriiide

They are tired of being told what their government can't and/or won't do.

Are they? Or are they tired of being told what their government can and will do.

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That those with which we have entrusted our rights and our livlihoods care little for either.

To entrust anyone other than yourself with your rights and lively hood is about the biggest mistake you could make to begin with. Basically, Obama supporters are saying, hey, we need someone else who's going to take care of us?

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But the positive message resonates. The message that together, we do deserve better, and together we can make a difference. That we don't have to accept less than we deserve as human beings and as Americans.

Socialistic nonsense. You show me one person who has worked harder than everyone around him and not become successful. People want to be mediocre and live the same standards as those who are above average. They deserve nothing.

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Americans have been told that we can't for so long, the message of "yes, we can" is like an oasis in a desert.

Geeze, WTF? Who is telling us that we can't? God damn it, I'm going to run for president and come up with a bunch of feel good, fuzzy wuzzy bull shit and lead the masses to slaughter with this shit.

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People want to believe that their government can be an agent of good. People want to know that even as our country merges into the global society, our individual worth is not diminished. People want to know that their elected leaders have not just a vision of America, but a positive vision of America.

I think this is where there are similarities between Obama and Reagan. Obama got blasted for the comparison, but i think it's an appropriate one in that Reagan also had an unwavering optimism and belief in what was possible for America and Americans. Even though they are from opposite ends of the political spectrum, there is a common ground between the two.

People want to believe in themselves. They want to know that someone else believes in them. Even if it's someone that they have never met and will never meet. It's enough that someone is saying that there is a better way; that as an individual, you are worth believing in.

People also want to believe in something greater than themselves. They want to believe that their government is there for the good of us all. But over the years, that belief has proved misplaced. Now comes someone that is trying to show that trusting their elected leaders to act for the good of the most people should be rewarded by having the expectations of that trust met.

Obama has lightning in a bottle and a tiger by the tail. I only hope that when he is elected, he will be able to carry his positive message through to meaningful action without the same-old same-old politics of can't and won't serving to stymie the groundswell of positive action that is being generated by this campaign.

more later

LessGovMrPrez · 02-14-2008, 09:47 AM

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Originally Posted by prrriiide

But the positive message resonates. The message that together, we do deserve better, and together we can make a difference. That we don't have to accept less than we deserve as human beings and as Americans.

Ok. Deserve better what? Together we can what? Nothing but big broad platitudes. When is he going to get down to specifics?

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Americans have been told that we can't for so long, the message of "yes, we can" is like an oasis in a desert.

Um, who is saying "No, we can't'? That would be the very left and government Obama wants us to believe in....lol.

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People want to believe that their government can be an agent of good.

The best thing government can do is get out of the way and let people live their lives, not control every aspect of it. Which is what Obama and the left are after.

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People want to know that even as our country merges into the global society, our individual worth is not diminished.

You havent been paying attention to what Obama and Hillary are saying. They dont want individualism, they want collectivism, socialism.

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People want to know that their elected leaders have not just a vision of America, but a positive vision of America.

Again, what does that mean?

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I think this is where there are similarities between Obama and Reagan. Obama got blasted for the comparison, but i think it's an appropriate one in that Reagan also had an unwavering optimism and belief in what was possible for America and Americans. Even though they are from opposite ends of the political spectrum, there is a common ground between the two.

No, no comparison whatsoever. Reagan believed in the individual and the Constitutional idea of a small government. Not gigantic government socialist programs that crush individualism and create a dependence on the government, which also crushes individualism. No similarity whatsoever.

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People want to believe in themselves.

Ok, who is stopping them? Could it be themselves? The government keeping them down thanks to their wonderful policies and nanny programs?

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They want to know that someone else believes in them. Even if it's someone that they have never met and will never meet. It's enough that someone is saying that there is a better way; that as an individual, you are worth believing in.

Great, but none of that is coming from the Democratic Party. You need to look toward the Conservatives for such talk b/c they are the ones who believe in the individuall power to overcome any obstacle in their path.

The only thing the left wants people to believe in is the State itself. Why do you think they constantly want to provide more government programs? The history of their movement is set upon this idea of the State providing for every aspect of life.

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People also want to believe in something greater than themselves.

God or State? To the left, State is the greater good. Hence all the nanny programs.

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They want to believe that their government is there for the good of us all. But over the years, that belief has proved misplaced.

Well of course it has, the left has made it so. All, or I should say most, of the policies we have today were initiated by the progressive liberal movement. You are basically complaining about your own party's past and present policies and you are about to vote for even more of the same things with Obama....lol. Amazing.

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Now comes someone that is trying to show that trusting their elected leaders to act for the good of the most people should be rewarded by having the expectations of that trust met.

Ok Obama has been in the Senate for 2 years right? Where is the legislation he has introduced that backs up all his claims in his campaign? He already sits in a position that can create "change and hope", yet he has done nothing.

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Obama has lightning in a bottle and a tiger by the tail. I only hope that when he is elected, he will be able to carry his positive message through to meaningful action without the same-old same-old politics of can't and won't serving to stymie the groundswell of positive action that is being generated by this campaign.

He has alrady been elected to the Senate where the laws are created. Where are his bills he has introduced? You intentionally pass up the fact he has already been ELECTED to make changes, yet has done nothing of the sort.

superdude17* · 02-14-2008, 12:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LessGovMrPrez

Ok. Deserve better what? Together we can what? Nothing but big broad platitudes. When is he going to get down to specifics?

Um, who is saying "No, we can't'? That would be the very left and government Obama wants us to believe in....lol.

The best thing government can do is get out of the way and let people live their lives, not control every aspect of it. Which is what Obama and the left are after.

You havent been paying attention to what Obama and Hillary are saying. They dont want individualism, they want collectivism, socialism.

Again, what does that mean?

No, no comparison whatsoever. Reagan believed in the individual and the Constitutional idea of a small government. Not gigantic government socialist programs that crush individualism and create a dependence on the government, which also crushes individualism. No similarity whatsoever.

Ok, who is stopping them? Could it be themselves? The government keeping them down thanks to their wonderful policies and nanny programs?

Great, but none of that is coming from the Democratic Party. You need to look toward the Conservatives for such talk b/c they are the ones who believe in the individuall power to overcome any obstacle in their path.

The only thing the left wants people to believe in is the State itself. Why do you think they constantly want to provide more government programs? The history of their movement is set upon this idea of the State providing for every aspect of life.

God or State? To the left, State is the greater good. Hence all the nanny programs.

Well of course it has, the left has made it so. All, or I should say most, of the policies we have today were initiated by the progressive liberal movement. You are basically complaining about your own party's past and present policies and you are about to vote for even more of the same things with Obama....lol. Amazing.

Ok Obama has been in the Senate for 2 years right? Where is the legislation he has introduced that backs up all his claims in his campaign? He already sits in a position that can create "change and hope", yet he has done nothing.

He has alrady been elected to the Senate where the laws are created. Where are his bills he has introduced? You intentionally pass up the fact he has already been ELECTED to make changes, yet has done nothing of the sort.

agree with every word. well said.

FRYandBENDER · 02-14-2008, 01:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by prrriiide

People want to believe in themselves. They want to know that someone else believes in them. Even if it's someone that they have never met and will never meet. It's enough that someone is saying that there is a better way; that as an individual, you are worth believing in.

Where is Oprah when you need her, Oh yeah, at an Obama rally. I fail to see how the government can help people believe in themselves. And the idea that people need others to believe in them is somewhat contradictory to the idea of believing in yourself and being an individualist. What sort of sad sacks have we become when we just have to have other people or government come pat us on the back and tell us we're worth believing in. If you don't believe it enough yourself, then your not worth believing in. Mother fucking DUH.

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People also want to believe in something greater than themselves. They want to believe that their government is there for the good of us all. But over the years, that belief has proved misplaced. Now comes someone that is trying to show that trusting their elected leaders to act for the good of the most people should be rewarded by having the expectations of that trust met.

Geeze, where to begin on this one? There is nothing greater than the individual. These people can want in one hand and shit in the other and see which one fills up first. What a bunch of socialistic garbage. LISTEN LOUD AND CLEAR FOLKS. You can't trust the government. I don't care if its Mr. Rogers running for president. You can not trust him. It is their business to fucking lie to you. How many more bull shit politicians is it going to take before you realize this?

My favorite part: "A government that is there for the good of us all." I'll worry about what is good for me thank you. You keep your big welfare government to yourself. The government that is there for the good of us all is the government that is there the least. There is no government like NO government.

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Obama has lightning in a bottle and a tiger by the tail.

Watch the fuck out for this guy then.

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I only hope that when he is elected, he will be able to carry his positive message through to meaningful action without the same-old same-old politics of can't and won't serving to stymie the groundswell of positive action that is being generated by this campaign.

I just hope he keeps his fucking nose out of my business.

prrriiide · 02-15-2008, 02:10 PM

You "anti-government" types crack me up, you really do.

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There is no government like NO government.

If you really believe that, why don't you pack up and move to Congo or Darfur? Their lack of government is working famously for them, isn't it? ISN'T IT??? Be sure to have your wife and daughter say hi to the tribal militia while you're there.

No, the truth is people that say they don't want government mean that they only want government that benefits THEM. Everyone else can go to hell. By your logic, we are all responsible for providing our own roads to and from work, while denying the use of your road to anyone else.

You scream "socialism" at the first hint that the government might try to do something that benefits someone that doesn't have YOUR NAME. Here's a dirty little secret, and you can't deny it: roads are socialistic. Police departments are socialistic. The military is socialistic. As are the post office, air traffic control, cell phones, television, and many other things that YOU use every day without a second thought.

It must suck to live a life where you see a socialist behind every tree and a communist in every doorway. Here's another dirty little secret: communism and socialism are not the same thing. You all have bought into the propaganda spouted by the moneyed peoples that socialism means someone is going to come to your house and take your shit away and give it to someone that just wants to be lazy.

You labor under the asinine idea that every person in the US starts with the same advantages and disadvantages as anyone else. That sounds like someone that was born on third base and thinks they hit a triple.

I've said it before, and I'll keep saying it: taxes are the entry fee to a civilized society. And no matter what you think, what you lacked in your upbringing, or what ever, we ALL are responsible for each other. As a human being, it is my responsibility to help out where I can and where my talents and resources allow. I don't pay too much in taxes. I don't like where all of it is being spent, but I don't pay too much. Living in the US and having the Bill of Rights is a bargain at any price.

And where are the people from the uber-socialist countries of Europe and Canada? I don't hear much in the way of bitching that they pay too much in taxes. But I also see what services and policies their governments provide. I don't agree with some of them, but if the fact of government is so onerus, why is the Euro the monetary unit to which international financial markets are pegging their value? How can those countries POSSIBLY be so successful?

You want to know why the government lies? Because we as a people have almost completely abdicated our role of oversight via the ballot box. We have stopped thinking critically, and allowed others like Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, Alan Colms, and other pundits tell us what to think. If you think the government is a piece of shit, you and I need to look in the mirror to assign blame for that one. We're the ones that have allowed the government to whore itself in the corporation's bed. The politicians in Washington are only bastards if we allow it.

You expect the government to be shit, and that's exactly what you get. Start demanding better, and that's exactly what you'll get.

Have you bought your mountain in Idaho yet?

leo · 02-15-2008, 02:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by prrriiide

You "anti-government" types crack me up, you really do.

If you really believe that, why don't you pack up and move to Congo or Darfur? Their lack of government is working famously for them, isn't it? ISN'T IT??? Be sure to have your wife and daughter say hi to the tribal militia while you're there.

No, the truth is people that say they don't want government mean that they only want government that benefits THEM. Everyone else can go to hell. By your logic, we are all responsible for providing our own roads to and from work, while denying the use of your road to anyone else.

You scream "socialism" at the first hint that the government might try to do something that benefits someone that doesn't have YOUR NAME. Here's a dirty little secret, and you can't deny it: roads are socialistic. Police departments are socialistic. The military is socialistic. As are the post office, air traffic control, cell phones, television, and many other things that YOU use every day without a second thought.

It must suck to live a life where you see a socialist behind every tree and a communist in every doorway. Here's another dirty little secret: communism and socialism are not the same thing. You all have bought into the propaganda spouted by the moneyed peoples that socialism means someone is going to come to your house and take your shit away and give it to someone that just wants to be lazy.

You labor under the asinine idea that every person in the US starts with the same advantages and disadvantages as anyone else. That sounds like someone that was born on third base and thinks they hit a triple.

I've said it before, and I'll keep saying it: taxes are the entry fee to a civilized society. And no matter what you think, what you lacked in your upbringing, or what ever, we ALL are responsible for each other. As a human being, it is my responsibility to help out where I can and where my talents and resources allow. I don't pay too much in taxes. I don't like where all of it is being spent, but I don't pay too much. Living in the US and having the Bill of Rights is a bargain at any price.

And where are the people from the uber-socialist countries of Europe and Canada? I don't hear much in the way of bitching that they pay too much in taxes. But I also see what services and policies their governments provide. I don't agree with some of them, but if the fact of government is so onerus, why is the Euro the monetary unit to which international financial markets are pegging their value? How can those countries POSSIBLY be so successful?

You want to know why the government lies? Because we as a people have almost completely abdicated our role of oversight via the ballot box. We have stopped thinking critically, and allowed others like Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, Alan Colms, and other pundits tell us what to think. If you think the government is a piece of shit, you and I need to look in the mirror to assign blame for that one. We're the ones that have allowed the government to whore itself in the corporation's bed. The politicians in Washington are only bastards if we allow it.

You expect the government to be shit, and that's exactly what you get. Start demanding better, and that's exactly what you'll get.

Have you bought your mountain in Idaho yet?

I agree 100 %

I think some place like the middle of Africa you can get just what you work for w/ no big government to get in your way - may be you guys can try that place too... don't get me wrong I see your points on big government too guys, but all GREAT things require some great sacrifices - and a lot of great people have had to pay the highest price and here we are complaining about the sacrifices that we are LUCKY enough to pay... a lot is broken in our system and it ain't gonna get fixed w/ the wave of the magic wand... these days too many people are self centered and only think about what they can get from their government - not what they can give to their government...

If you really want to see what little or no government is like - really go live in some of those countries then come back to me and tell me what you REALLY think about little to no government - especially in highly populated areas....

Sebelius for VP, not Hillary · 02-15-2008, 03:08 PM

All this talk about big government only makes sense coming from three types of people:

* People who own large businesses or corporations
* Gays
* People who want to do drugs

Unless you are one of those people, then the whole "big government" rhetoric is total bullshit, as there is no "big government" telling you what to do, unless you are one of those kinds of people.

If you consider a government mandate telling you that your children must be covered under a health plan, telling you what to do, and you consider that "big government", then that would be different, although still moronic.

IA_independent · 02-15-2008, 04:01 PM

prrriiide, leo and W.E.B., keep up with the great posts, you guys are the main reason I can't stay away from this site. Your information, links and points of views are top notch stuff. Thanks.

Sebelius for VP, not Hillary · 02-15-2008, 07:07 PM

Thank you.

Cheers,
WEB