Originally Posted by LampCord

Everyone I talk to who is an Obama supporter uses some vague terms like hope, change, and unity. But I'm a policy guy. I mean, I admire him, I find him very inspiring, but once you get past that, what does he actually PLAN to do for us?

When I look at his policies, they seem to be a mirror of Hillary Clintons.

Change? Its the same policies Democrats have been trying to shove down the throats of mainstream America for 20 years. How is that change? Sure, having a black guy be president would be a change. But to me, its strictly a symbolic one. Just like having a woman as president. Its great if its a symbolic victory for your personal struggle but doesn't really affect anyone's life in a meaningful way.

Unity? Sure, unity within the Left wing of the Democratic Party but I don't see how his policies are going to reach out to those of us who don't want nationalized HC, high taxes, and cut and run foreign policy. As usual, its a case of everyone agree with me and then we'll be unified. Lets face it, the only candidate left in the race that actually has shown a willingness to reach over to the other side is John McCain. He represents Unity more than any other candidate. That's why conservatives don't want him.

Hope? Well again, it depends what you hope for. Since I don't believe in his policy positions, it doesn't represent hope for me in any way. Maybe hope for insurgents in Iraq that America will finally retreat and hand them the biggest moral victory they could ever hope for.

If I were a supporter of his I'd remember this: Hillary can't really go after his policy positions because they are just like hers. That won't be the case when he faces McCain. Once his policies are shown to be the same Democratic positions they have been pushing for 2 decades its going to be clear that once you get past the beautiful rhetoric, its just the same policies that John Kerry, Al Gore and Hillary Clinton were pushing. Same story, different cover.

Originally Posted by francois60

This depends in large part if conservatives try to filibuster Obama's fiscal plans. Then we will have to see how good at compromise and negotiation Obama is. Also, it will depend on the state of the economy. It will be a tough sell to try to invest in the environmental technologies if unemployment is soaring.


This is why I think Obama will be successful. Although I think the policies he's come up with are mostly awful, his approach to government and his intelligence indicate to me that he'll do well. The Republicans and Blue Dog Democrats will stop his more boneheaded ideas and they'll meet him halfway on his good ones.

Like that health care plan. It really is the best health care plan I've seen in the US, and I'm saying that as someone who is very skeptical of universal health care.

As far as the environment goes, Obama is way too beholden to coal and ethanol interests. I really don't think he'll get anything done on the environment unless he is truly committed to booting out special interests.

Originally Posted by LampCord

I still maintain that AS THINGS STAND RIGHT NOW, Obama's policy positions are about as liberal as you can get.

Now what would be interesting to me is this:

What happens if Obama wins the Dem nomination and then like Bill Clinton before him moves towards the center?

If I felt he was really showing an ability to listen to the other side (my side) and trying to find compromises, I might actually vote for him. I voted for Bill Clinton twice. He wasn't that liberal, he was a true moderate, IMO. I'm not married to a party.

If Obama reached out to conservatives the way McCain has reached out to liberals (Feinstein, Kenedy, Lieberman, etc.) I would have a very tough choice in November.

Right now, all I see out of Obama is left wing policies and some Bush bashing. Neither of those things impresses me at all.

And if he does move towards the center in the name of compromise, how many of you will he lose?

As far as not being able to get things done because there isn't a big enough Dem majority, I'm all for political gridlock. Often doing nothing is the most productive thing we get out of Washington.