LessGovMrPrez

I watched another debate last night on the Democratic side. And for the 2nd straight time, I heard all of them say that they want to stimulate the economy by giving back money to poor people so they can pay their energy bills.

It doesnt take a 5th grader to figure out, that paying regular bills is not going to stimulate the economy. Someone needs to let these people know that paying regular monthly bills to industries heavily regulated by the government simply goes right back to the government. Talk about the blind leading the blind.

Someone needs to throw these guys a freakin bone here, this is getting embarrasing.

I am all for the government giving us back our money, lord knows we ar all overtaxed, but to qualify it by saying we are stimulating the economy by letting poor people pay their bills, isnt going to stimulate anything. Do they really expect poor people to spend that money anyways? I mean the very fact that people are termed "poor" is because they dont have money to spend in the first place.

I got an idea, want to stimulate our economy guys? Cut taxes, both personal and business. Quit spending money. And deregulate our private sector so people will see the benefits of starting and maintaining their own businesses. That is how you stimulate the economy, not by handing back money to poor people to pay their bills. That stimulates nothing.

Now, understand I am not against poor people, but it is time we got realistic here. Paying bills that are already suppose to be paid monthly is not adding any new money to the economy whatsoever. In fact it keeps the status quo, nothing more.

Get a clue Democratic candidates, all this talk of the poor is making you look liek beggers pandering for votes. And you are using the poor as your crutch. Shame on you for giving false hope. You want to help the poor? Cut taxes on everyone and business so that more money can flow to the businesses so they can hire more people and expand. Oppurtunity through jobs helps the poor more then anything government can do for them, which is nothing more then keeping the status quo.

francois60

Well, in fairness, the Republicans don't have any better ideas. Both parties are just advocating doing what they would normally want to do. That's how the parties respond to ANY crisis: insist that we desperately need to do what they've been telling us to do for years.

The right thing to do is to first, understand that not all recessions are the same. They have different causes, and different recessions(or threats of recessions) require different actions.

In the case of this particular economic problem, there really is nothing that can be done that will be of any help. This isn't like the recession of the early 90s, where it was simply a matter of demand slackening. This is a credit problem, and it can't be solved by giving people more money to spend or to lower interest rates to make money cheaper. The only thing that can be done is to let things shake out. If this is done, we'll be fine in a year or two. If it isn't, if politicians try to ease the pain, it will result in prolonged recession.

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chicken butt

Radio Raheem

Obama unveils economic package

I think the reasoning is that poor folks spend all of their income.If you give money to middle class-rich people, they are probably just save it. I think the quote "to help pay power bills" was just a way to make it sound more attractive.
I would like to see some help get to small business owners, and I think Bush's plan does do that.
I would like to see the government offer some very aggressive rebates/tax credits for going "green". Give a government rebate/tax credit for buying a fuel efficiant vehicle, Energy saving bulbs, solar panels, new windows, new doors, insulation, Energy wise appliances, etc. I think it would stimulate the economy and do something good for the enviroment.

Charleston Patriot

All the dems ever have to offer is class warfare baiting. "The top 1 percent." "Greedy corperations" "Tax the rich" I heard an Edwards commercial (I live in SC, so this is all I've been hearing for the last few days) about "the greedy nuclear energy corperations" Give me a break! Greedy nuclear energy corperations??! Yeah! Shut all those nuclear facilities down! See how prosperous we are then.

I'm sick of the dems trying to devide this nation. It's scare tactics. I heard Hillary say "I'm the one who will go after those Republicans!" Then, 2 days later, she said "I can help unite Americans!" What a contradicting, hypocritical liar. It still blows my mind that people fall for her BS.

Radio Raheem

The terror level has just been raised!! Fight them there or fight them here!! The gays want to be married!! The Mexicans are ruining this Country!! Stop Welfare!! We need to give rich folks money, so they will pay better!!

LessGovMrPrez

I grow tired of people blaming loan companies for people buying into non-fixed mortgages. I really am.

The Dems even on this issue, make is sound like the people who got these ARMs were just innocent bystanders who have no accountability factor. In fact, I will go so far as to say, that the Dems are basically telling us that the people who got the ARMs are stupid and cant think for themselves. Just like they tried to do down in Florida in 2000, when they said it was confusing to vote b/c of the ballots. According to Dems, everyone is stupid and cant figure things out on their own, so they use that excuse to inject the Federal government into it, to gain more control.

I really grow tired of it.

It is not the loan companies fault that the standards, that government set mind you, allowed people with not so good credit to get loans they couldnt affford. When you walk into a company's office to negotiate terms and sign the dotted line, that is a binding contract. If you dont know what the fuck you are signing then you dont sign it. Period. End of discussion. We are talking about grown adults here. Welcome to the real world, where you better know what you are doing before you do it. If you dont know what you are getting into, then you best not get into it. It is called having a plan. I know in today's urban myth life of doing what "feels good" is the call of the day, but reality sooner or later has to come crashing back down to those people who want to live that way.

I am tired of the federal government using such things to inject more control over the markets b/c someone made a bad business decision. GET OVER IT! It is your fault, not the company, or anybody elses. You should have known what you were getting into from the get go, before you go signing off on legal documents.

LessGovMrPrez

Well you might have a point, but lets be honest here, at least the Republicans, some of them, understand private businesses and how they work which in my book is absolutely crucial if you plan on running for any office. Listen to the Dems and all they want to do is take from businesses, which in the end hurts the poor, whom they say they fight for.

It makes absolutely no sense to continouly harp on business and their profits b/c the government has no authority to take them, simply for the sake of handing it out to someone else. Our federal government is out of control and nobody seems to point to this HUGE fact. Listen to what the Dems say and then listen to Republicans. Now some Republicans, like McCain are no different, but they dont bash the private sector to no end.

Would you want to have a business where all the talk, is against and hostile to you? We got government politicians outright saying they want to take profits b/c they are making to much. Since when did the government gain the right to say what is to much money? Have they seen the Federal government's budget to date?

The Dems are completely off the cliff when it comes to the economy. All the y do is try and out do one another on who is gonna get out of Iraq the quickest, who is gonna take more from the oil industry, who is gonna give us free healthcare faster, etc.

VoiceofReason

Instill confidence since what is contributing is the fear mongering of the MSM and liberals desperately hoping for a financial disaster. They could instill that confidence by making the tax cuts permanent. They could REALLY do it by cutting corporate taxes.

But once the tax rebate genie is out of the bottle the Rep can't possibly oppose it. They should make it only for income taxes and only up to the amount you actually paid up to the $800 max per tax payer. That puts it into the hands of people who might spend it like it should be spent on products or services they wouldn't ordinarily purchase or were putting it off. People who don't pay income tax or earn very little already get a rebate for their FICA taxes that is a non-issue. Give the earners and producers some of their money back.
Pretty much except what I said above. Don't prop up the bad loans on overvalued houses. It's not that many people in the big picture. Rates are down those who are credit worthy can refinance.
Heck I wish housing prices would come down. My taxes are higher, my insurance is higher. We'd consider selling and buying something else but the prices are so high it isn't worth the cost of doing it. Let things naturally readjust and we'll be back on track again.

Fong

Prez, I think the point here is this.

Instead of paying their energy bills with what little money they have, which the Government covers instead, they can spend that money in other ways, which will stimulate the economy, because a lot more people will be spending, and spending is what helps the economy.

That is why your Government just made the biggest cut in the federal interest rates for 25 years, because people are scared of a recession and are not spending.

I watched the Colbert Report earlier and they had some guy called Sloane on there from Fortune Magazine, and he said the same thing, consumer spending is down, which is bad for the economy. Colbert said. "What I can do to help?" he replied...go out and spend money.

If you pay the energy bills for the poor, then they can spend the money they were going to, as you put it, give back to Government, on retail shopping instead, which WILL stimulate the economy.

prrriiide

Why would you be tired of it? If you loaned money to someone that you knew would have a problem repaying it under the terms you offered, should you be held blameless when they skip on you? You're the one that chose to loan the money.

This is a mess almost entirely of the lender's making. After 9/11, the Fed cut interest rates 11 times in 12 months. Credit was cheap. The companies lowered their standards on who they would give a loan in order to cash in on the cheap credit. That isn't set by the government. The government can set a limit on interest rates, but they can't tell a person or a company what risk they will be allowed to take. The mortgage companies rolled the dice on low credit ratings. The dice were very friendly for awile, but they kept letting it ride and when it came up snake eyes, a lot of people got hurt. The standard line was "don't worry about the rate adjustment, you can just re-finance before the rate goes up." The problem is, housing prices started going down in 2006, and the people with these ARMs, while they could re-fi, couldn't get enough equity to pay off the ARM. So when the rates adjusted to a level they couldn't handle, they started walking away from the loans. 2 million of them so far, and surely more to come.

And that effects every investment sector in the economy. Your 401k likely was invested in mortgage companies like Countrywide. You should be pissed as hell that the management of these companies exposed your retirement funds to that kind of risk. I know I am.

I had an ARM. I was also fortunate enough to get out from under it 3 months after the first rate adjustment and 6 months before the crisis really hit and I could still get top dollar for my previous house. I thought I knew exactly what I was getting into when I signed the papers. But if I hadn't got out when I did, I'd be fucked. But I would have never gotten that loan if I had known a) that the Fed would raise rates as much as they did, b) that housing prices would drop as much as they have, and c) that oil and food prices would rise as sharply as they have. I also wouldn't have done it if the guy at the lender hadn't told me that in his experience, it would be the best deal for me. Live and learn. Not everyone is privvy to your unending wealth of financial acumen. You seem to believe that everyone has attained the same level of business expertise that you enjoy, but that is far from the case. People were sold these loans by salespeople working on commission, the most trustworthy people in any situation. [/sarc] So before you start pointing fingers and lambasting, stop and realize that we didn't all have access to LessGovMrPrez The Great and his encyclopedic knowledge of all things financial.

Who is more culpable: the person trying to navigate the unknown minefield of the mortgage industry, or the experienced pro leading them?

They are saying nothing of the sort. Like I said, a lot of people are less well-versed in such things and depended on the "experts" at the mortgage companies to guide them. Their mistake was in believing that these sales people had a fiduciary responsibility to them, when they were really only working for their commission on the loan.

Incorrect. The government can't tell a company who they can loan to and who they can't any more than they can tell you. They can cap rates to prevent usury, but if you are a lender, caveat emptor. It's your risk, not the government's.

So those people shouldn't have tried to buy their own home? The sales people were telling them that the risk could be mitigated or avoided. I assume that instead of listening to the paid advice of your attorney, you pore over 500-page contracts yourself? Did you read every word of the contract on your home, or did you trust that the people that prepared it were working in your favor and not in self-interest? People assumed that these sales people had the same responsibility to them that an attorney would have. Those sales people who were depending on these commissions weren't about to tell them any differently.

You would rail against universal higher ed, but when someone gets a lesson at the school of hard knocks, you want to blame them when they are taken advantage of?

The govenment has to get involved at this point. A weak economy combined with the vast sums of money pouring into a key industry for the country from foreign investors is a matter of national security. And that is most definitely a governmental function.

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