Quote:
Originally Posted by W.E.B. Du Bois
OK, so we can agree then that according to the dictionary definition of the word speculate, that you have been speculating on homosexuality. I think think that aside from a strict definition, your comments here are speculation on a less strict definition as well. Unless there is a consensus among scientists what the biological/environmental nature of homosexuality is, and you know and are regurgitating that consensus, then you are speculating on homosexuality.
|
I didn't realize that restating a consensus is speculation? I guess restating anything anyone ever says qualifies as speculation. To quote a president is speculation or even paraphrase someone is speculation now.
Quote:
|
Wrong on several accounts. I said it was hypocritical how you implicitly criticized me for speculating on homosexuality in prison while you then proceeded to speculate on homosexuality in general. That's hypocrisy, remember?
|
Really?? I "implicitly" criticized you for speculation? You seem to know what I'm saying better then I do? Why don't you just speak on my behalf?
It's also dishonest for you to mischaracterize my comments on Umm's link. I did not dismiss it. Prove that I dismissed it. I observed that he provided no quotes from his link that reinforced his point. If you believe differently, then elaborate on how he demonstrated his point with his link.
[/quote]
These are your words.
Quote:
|
The source is concerned almost exclusively or nearly exclusively about rape, and non-consensual sex. So it doesn't speak to consensual sex. To use an analogy, your method of debate here is to argue that all cops are bad and to only use data of police brutality. You've simply limited your data to data that could only support your position, and that is not valid support for your position.
|
You dismissed the link as being irrelevant to your argument on the grounds that it spoke only of rape and non-consensual sex. It did not speak of the kind of gay sex in prisons you were referring to so you did not consider it relevant. Therefore there is no point in me commenting on it.
Quote:
|
1: to permit or cause to leave <dismissed the visitors>2: to remove from position or service : discharge <dismissed the thievish servant>3 a: to reject serious consideration of <dismissed the thought> b: to put out of judicial consideration <dismissed all charges>
|
Quote:
The reason why that's the only form of
You implied that it was weird to speculate on homosexuality on jail, while at the same time you proceeded to speculate on homosexuality in general. That's hypocritical.
|
I still cannot fathom how you come to the conclusion that paraphrasing and speculation are the same thing.
[quote]
Quote:
|
The basis for your claims of physiological changes in one of your links was based upon rats and quails, not human beings. That's not evidence of human physiological changes. Nor were the findings of the link I mentioned conclusive. I reject both your source, and your explanations about your source.
|
Where exactly in the article did it say that it was coming to a conclusion regarding the size of the Suprachiasmatic nucleus in humans based on animals and not humans? You have chosen to narrow your argument to a very complicated piece of text here and I still can't find that anywhere in the text? At least give me a page number.
Quote:
|
This does not explain why some people would theoretically have different hormone production than others.
|
Prenatal hormones and sexual orientation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
lol. I didn't use a quantity over quality argument. I gave you a link to a Wikipedia article after you requested information on physiological differences in gays. I didn't put the citations there. Since you requested the information I just assumed you would take it for what was rather then find one of the citations to nitpick about.
Will comment on a few of these links.
This man does in fact suggest that homosexuality is genetically influenced.But this isn't so much a study as it is an educated opinion of one man anyway.
Quote:
|
"An area of particularly strong public interest is the genetic basis of homosexuality. Evidence from twin studies does in fact support the conclusion that heritable factors play a role in male homosexuality. However, the likelihood that the identical twin of a homosexual male will also be gay is about 20% (compared with 2-4 percent of males in the general population), indicating that sexual orientation is genetically influenced but not hardwired by DNA, and that whatever genes are involved represent predispositions, not predeterminations [emphasis added]."
|
AGLP Fact Sheets
I don't see how this one helps you either.
Quote:
What causes Homosexuality/Heterosexuality/Bisexuality?
No one knows what causes heterosexuality, homosexuality, or bisexuality. Homosexuality was once thought to be the result of troubled family dynamics or faulty psychological development. Those assumptions are now understood to have been based on misinformation and prejudice. Currently there is a renewed interest in searching for biological etiologies for homosexuality. However, to date there are no replicated scientific studies supporting any specific biological etiology for homosexuality. Similarly, no specific psychosocial or family dynamic cause for homosexuality has been identified, including histories of childhood sexual abuse. Sexual abuse does not appear to be more prevalent in children who grow up to identify as gay, lesbian, or bisexual, than in children who identify as heterosexual.
|
At any rate of the articles I've read none if them definitely argue homosexuality as being a choice at all. Can you point to me the one that does?
Quote:
|
OK, so either way, the proof that homosexuality is based upon environmental factors is "just one of many."
|
Hey, it may very well be. I never said it wasn't. However that doesn't make it a choice.
Quote:
Malleability of homosexuality
The American Psychiatric Association has stated "some people believe that sexual orientation is innate and fixed; however, sexual orientation develops across a person’s lifetime."[83] In combination with other major American medical organizations, they have put out a statement which said: "Sexual orientation develops across a person's lifetime—different people realize at different points in their lives that they are heterosexual, gay, lesbian, or bisexual."[62] A report from the Centre for Addiction and Mental Health states: "For some people, sexual orientation is continuous and fixed throughout their lives. For others, sexual orientation may be fluid and change over time."[136] One study has suggested "considerable fluidity in bisexual, unlabeled, and lesbian women's attractions, behaviors, and identities."[137][138]
However, they do not consider sexual orientation to be "a conscious choice that can be voluntarily changed."[139] American medical organization have further stated therapy cannot change sexual orientation, and have expressed concerns over potential harms.[62] The American Psychological Association has further stated "Can Therapy Change Sexual Orientation? No... It does not require treatment and is not changeable."[139] The director of the APA's LGBT Concerns Office explained: "I don't think that anyone disagrees with the idea that people can change because we know that straight people become gays and lesbians.... the issue is whether therapy changes sexual orientation, which is what many of these people claim."[140] The American Psychiatric Association has stated "To date, there are no scientifically rigorous outcome studies to determine either the actual efficacy or harm of "reparative" treatments," and supports research to further determines risks versus its benefits.[141] Similarly, United States Surgeon General David Satcher issued a report stating that "there is no valid scientific evidence that sexual orientation can be changed".[142]
|
Quote:
That's a weird thing to do. I don't know why you would add something in to a later post and give the impression that you were saying something that you never said. I would just say it the next time.
WEB
|
No, I messed up my quotes. Before I finished that sentence I went back to copy my comment. When I put my comment in quotes it ended up in there however I did not realize it until I re-read my post. I highlighted it rather then edit it out because if I removed it it would seem as though I edited my post further.