Actually, Joe, you may be arguing with the wrong person. I wasn't trying to defend whether we were better off (one assumes we are, but then the "Girls Gone Wild" commercial comes on, and you begin to think otherwise...) ;-)

You seem to be equating humanism to Pandora's box. I can't speak authoritatively on all aspects of humanism, but I do know that Martin Luther received what could be classified as a humanist education, which could have had something to do with instigating the reformation. But that's neither here nor there isit?

Okay: as far as man being the center of all things, I think you have to allow that there really isn't any other way to view the universe. Even the Christian God is something of a human construct, as he is personified, rather than an abstract force. Of course, there's a difference between seeing "man" as the center of all things, and one's self as the center of all things. The former recognizes the inqueness of our species. The latter smacks of selfishness.

I think this may relate to the "fruits of humanism" of which you speak--we tend to think of ourselves as the center of the universe. I agree that we are all inherently selfish, perhaps more so now than in the past. It's true that when you see what is possible, your mind tends to stray there. I would hope that we could find another wayto look outside ourselves at the grand scope of existence and derive some humility from our own existence. Doesn't always happen. But we're still a young country. Things could (and will) change.