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Old 04-08-2008, 07:15 PM
W.E.B. Du Bois's Avatar
W.E.B. Du Bois W.E.B. Du Bois is offline
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Napolitano or Sebelius for VP; make history, Obama
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Truth-Bringer View Post
This is false. You have shown only fallacies.
Well I've shown the fallacies in what you've said here, that's why you haven't bothered to argue against what I've said. You keep changing your argument.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Truth-Bringer View Post
It's a little more complicated than that. What I'm saying is this:

"The fundamental constitutional institution for "homeland security" is not even the Army or Navy. America's Founding Fathers profoundly distrusted standing armed forces under the control of any government as potential enemies of liberty, not least of all because of their own experiences with the British Army's attempts to suppress freedom in the Colonies and independent States. So, in the Constitution, the Founders refused to adopt any preexisting army or navy, or to create new ones, as permanent establishments for the United States.

True, the Constitution delegates to Congress the powers "[t]o raise and support Armies" and "[t]o provide and maintain a Navy". Article I, Section 8, Clauses 12 and 13. And with such powers comes a duty to exercise them, when necessary and proper. Compare United States v. Marigold, 50 U.S. (9 Howard) 560, 567 (1850), with Article I, Section 8, Clause 18. Otherwise, though, Congress need never "raise and support", and need not continuously "provide and maintain", an army or a navy. Furthermore, the Constitution requires that, even when Congress does "raise" an army, "no Appropriation of Money to that Use shall be for a longer Term than two Years". Article I, Section 8, Clause 12. This enables the House of Representatives--the House of Congress electorally closest to the people and (in political theory, at least) most chary of their lives, liberties, and property--to prevent an army from continuing in existence when it serves no purpose that justifies its expense, or when it threatens Americans' freedoms.

In addition, the Constitution provides that "[n]o State shall, without the Consent of Congress, * * * keep Troops, or Ships of War, in time of Peace". Article I, Section 10, Clause 3. So, nowhere in the federal system does the supreme law of the land treat an army or navy as an inevitable, indispensable, permanent, or perpetual institution.
You have provided ONE and only ONE solid support for your argument. Here:

Article 1, Section 8, Clause 12
Quote:
To raise and support Armies, but no Appropriation of Money to that Use shall be for a longer Term than two Years;
That's a fine argument, however one could also argue that the Founders provided an escape from that clause with Article 1, Section 8, Clauses 1 and 18:

Quote:
The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

....
To make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers vested by this Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any Department or Officer thereof.
A standing army is "necessary" to "provide for the common defence".

So you could argue that the Founders were generally opposed to a standing army, but also that they were open to the possibility that the Constitution not be so rigid that it became impractical for real life.
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