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Old 04-08-2008, 01:58 PM   #6 (permalink)
Sebelius for VP, not Hillary
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Originally Posted by Truth-Bringer View Post
Then produce and present evidence of this. I believe they were talking about initiating war in general.
I don't need to. You've already provided them in your opening post.

"Never was so much false arithmetic employed on any subject, as that which has been employed to persuade nations that it is their interest to go to war." - Thomas Jefferson

"War is the common harvest of all those who participate in the division and expenditure of public money, in all countries. It is the art of conquering at home: the object of it is an increase of revenue: and as revenue cannot be increased without taxes, a pretence must be made for expenditures. In reviewing the history of the English Government, its wars and its taxes, a bystander, not blinded by prejudice, nor warped by interest, would declare, that taxes were not raised to carry on wars, but that wars were raised to carry on taxes." --Thomas Paine, Rights of Man, Part 1

"It is our true policy to steer clear of permanent alliances with any portion of the foreign world... As avenues to foreign influence in innumerable ways, such attachments are particularly alarming to the truly enlightened and independent Patriot. How many opportunities do they afford to tamper with domestic factions, to practise the arts of seduction, to mislead public opinion, to influence or awe the Public Councils… Harmony, liberal intercourse with all nations, are recommended by policy, humanity, and interest. But even our commercial policy should hold an equal and impartial hand; neither seeking nor granting exclusive favors or preferences...constantly keeping in view, that it is folly in one nation to look for disinterested favors from another; that it must pay with a portion of its independence for whatever it may accept under that character; that, by such acceptance, it may place itself in the condition of having given equivalents for nominal favors, and yet of being reproached with ingratitude for not giving more. There can be no greater error than to expect or calculate upon real favors from nation to nation. It is an illusion, which experience must cure, which a just pride ought to discard."

-George Washington’s Farewell Address, September 17, 1796

The quotes you list seem to be referring exclusively to the wars of old, the old conquest and colonialization wars of the past. The only explicitly anti-war (unconditionally) quote that I saw was this one that you listed:

Quote:
"The United States goes not abroad in search of monsters to destroy. She is a well-wisher to the freedom and independence of all. She is the champion and vindicator only of her own. If the United States took up all foreign affairs, it would become entangled in all the wars of interest and intrigue, which assume the colors and usurp the standard of freedom. She might become the dictatress of the world. She would be no longer the ruler of her own soul." -President John Quincy Adams, son of John Adams
Quote:
Originally Posted by Truth-Bringer View Post
There is very little "moral" component on the part of the U.S. government. What is "moral" is used strictly for propaganda to increase public support for their pre-emptive wars. The bottom line is that they are simply increasing their sphere of influence and attempting to secure economic supremacy. If they were truly "moral" as you suggest, they would not be allying with evil people, like Saddam. They were giving him weapons and money and knew all the while that he was torturing and killing innocent people in his country. But that was ok as long as he told them he was their ally. As long as he didn't do anything outside of his own country, he could sacrifice children to the "ancient blood god" for all they cared. But when he invaded Kuwait, he suddenly went from ally to "the next Hitler"...
US foreign policy has been atrocious most of the time. However, there are times when it has done some good, like when we stopped the ethnic cleansing in Kosovo and stopped (albeit belatedly) the ethnic cleansing in Bosnia.

The US record in Iraq is mixed. There is good and bad in it. We got rid of Saddam, and stopped the games he was playing with the UN and WMD. However, the war was mismanaged from even before it was launched.

It's wiser to not throw out the good with the bad. Your approach here is, unfortunately, to do just that.
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