Quote:
Originally Posted by Bronze Medal
So what if the cause was irresponsibility? Are people not allowed to fix thier mistakes these days they have to be uneccessarily punished just out of principal? Should tattoo removal be illegal too? Unless that fetus is human being it doesn't matter.
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That fetus
is a human being, it's a human life--by scientific standards in fact. Biologically (and this is irrefutable...), life begins at conception. That's what science has determined and science would be correct. The life that is created has the human life support systems--a brain, a beating heart, a circulatory system, spinal cord, etc.
as well as human DNA. It is a human life. People who don't want children should take the necessary precautions so that they either don't have children--or in the event that they
do have children, they should put them up for adoption... It's not that difficult. They may define it as a "mistake," but this isn't like some insignificant typo in Microsoft Word where you press the "undo" button and that's that--no harm no foul. This is a human life by all standards and it was created and by moral and societal standards it needs to be given the chance that it deserves in this world.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bronze Medal
That doesn't solve anything, abortion is an issue dealing with people who have already made the mistake of having irresponsible sex, the solution "Don't have sex irresponsibly" is a pointless, meaningless answer. The solution to the war in Iraq isn't "We shouldn't have went over there in the first place", no matter how true it may be.
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No, this issue is completely the result of sexual irresponsibility and idiots who can't keep their legs closed. If you don't want kids, there's one pretty simple
preventative measure that you can take isn't there? Yeah... That's the
root of this problem. Abortion shouldn't even
be an issue in the first place--killing human fetuses shouldn't be a something that people even consider as an option or availability... What kind of sick principle is that? Just that--a sick one.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bronze Medal
Forcing someone to have an unwanted child, to endure a pregnancy against thier will, to ruin thier lives and thier family's lives, putting more constraint on the already large, suffering human population, all over some brainless mass of human protein, that would be the inhumane and irresponsible thing to me.
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Lets see here. With every action there is an equal and opposing reaction. A real smart guy once said that and it can be applied to this idea here as well. You make stupid choices, you deal with the damn consequences. Someone has sex, they get pregnant, that's the way it goes. It's unnatural, immoral, and weak for someone who
chose to do something that they knew full well could result in pregnancy and then selfishly decide to end the life that was created by that choice. That sob story doesn't work in this society. People make choices, people deal with what nature gives them because of their choices
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bronze Medal
He did not specify what type of life so a tumor meets that one qualification.
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I'm surprised you weren't able to see what he meant. It seemed quite obvious, given the whole idea of this debate--but hey... I guess you can go ahead and argue semantics...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bronze Medal
A sperm and egg are completely nesseccary and required for life also and will grow into a human being.
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So what? One sperm cell and one egg are required for life to grow into a human being and by the process of human sexual reproduction, not all of them will be utilized. Thousands of sperm cells can't fertilize one egg--all but one are destined to die by the very process we're discussing, and if the woman hasn't had sex the egg is discarded by natural means. Your arguments in this general area hold no water. Yes, the process is random, meaning the sperm cells are "programmed" (if you will) to try and reach the egg, but only one
will reach it and the rest
will die. That's not human intervention, that's the human body's natural process, so if you're arguing that each individual sperm cell equates a human live, it's a very absurd argument indeed--rendered a complete fallacy by the systematic process of reproduction itself.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bronze Medal
That was exactly my point, not enough.
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And that was exactly my point... The real problem is all the unwanted births. But who's to blame for the "unwanted" births? The people who for whatever reason (usually lack of self-control/sexual irresponsibility/stupidity) deem the lives they created "mistakes" and throw them at adoption agencies to take care of. The only thing that will fix this problem/issue is people stopping their lives of promiscuity and sexual irresponsibility...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bronze Medal
And your solution is social irresponsibility.
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Oh what a
brilliant "argument"

, allow me to commend you on such a completely illogical and completely absurd statement. My solution--which I already stated was to prevent sexual irresponsibility. So, straight from your own words--which are shown clearly above this text--it would seem you think that people who aren't sexually irresponsible are socially irresponsible? Or maybe just the idea of trying to educate people on the risk of sexual irresponsibility and trying to prevent people from taking those risks is socially irresponsible... I just have one question for you... What in the
hell was the gist of that argument? By your
own words, you associated sexual
responsibility with social
irresponsibility as if it's a bad thing. How in God's name does that work?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bronze Medal
Abortion will alleliate that problem even more so than sexual responsibility (imagine the two combined?).
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It would seem you don't understand the point of my argument. I'm trying to suggest alternative means to murdering innocent human lives. You can call them what you will, but they are human lives and were created with a purpose in nature--and abortion destroys many things: that purpose in nature, the human potential behind those lives, the chance that those human lives deserved and were never given because of selfish reasons, etc. So yes, it would be selfishly efficient, but those of us who appreciate the moral aspect and side of this debate--those of us who see murder and the snuffing out of a human life, the killing of a tiny human being for selfish reasons to be appalling and the truth that it goes against the very grain of nature--are suggesting alternatives, not combinations with that completely hideous and selfish "practice."
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bronze Medal
Half of all conceptions are naturally stillbirthed.
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What's the keyword there? I'll give you three guesses and the first two don't count. It's
natural. The key word there is
natural. That means it occurs naturally. How many more ways and times can I emphasize this? Humans physically murdering the human fetus--the tiny human life for selfish reasons--for individualistic and anarchical purpose--goes against the very grain of nature and in no way can it be
logically compared to a stillbirth.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bronze Medal
Every single one of those sperms were created to reach that egg not just one. Just because for each conception only one sperm can fetilize the egg does not mean the ones that didn't fertilize the egg were there just for show or just for decoration.
And what of the egg you flush down the toilet every few weeks (or however often it is I wouldn't know)? Those are inarguably intended soley and without compitition to be fertilized are they not?
The fact is, every standard of human life you apply to fetii ultimately applies to sperm/egg as well. Sperm and egg are vital processes, they will grow into human beings, they have human DNA.
How do your standards make my argument 'against the idea of the reproductive system'?
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I already addressed this above, but for reference, here it is:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Locke9-05
One sperm cell and one egg are required for life to grow into a human being and by the process of human sexual reproduction, not all of them will be utilized. Thousands of sperm cells can't fertilize one egg--all but one are destined to die by the very process we're discussing, and if the woman hasn't had sex the egg is discarded by natural means. Your arguments in this general area hold no water. Yes, the process is random, meaning the sperm cells are "programmed" (if you will) to try and reach the egg, but only one will reach it and the rest will die. That's not human intervention, that's the human body's natural process, so if you're arguing that each individual sperm cell equates a human live, it's a very absurd argument indeed--rendered a complete fallacy by the systematic process of reproduction itself.
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